I checked the thicknesses of the ZO6 rotors the LT1 guys use vs. the g37 rotors
Z06-1.26"
G37-1.3"
Looks like we are ok with the NISMO g37 rotors. I believe they are made by Akabono for Nissan.
Looks like the last challenge is determining the offset correction needed by use of washers...James and I are buying a test caliper and rotor to verify or disprove this setup.
We should stick with the evo rear rotors/calipers...the cts-v rears are way to much for what we need.
Looking at a comparison pic of the evo brembo and the cts-v brembo, I just wonder if the evo has a larger piston diameter?
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Considering that the evo 8/9 rotor are 12" I don't think we are going to experience anything but really nice gains in braking performance. Can anyone do a calculation to prove this?
Chris
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSM mechanix
The calipers have a much smaller total piston surface area, so you'd need the 14" rotors just to keep the bias the same.
I think the rears have a wider bolt spacing but I may be incorrect
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnsafeAtAnySpd
I might have time later this week to bolt my spare CTS-V calipers on my Talon. I have a full set of those and Evo Brembos.
Considering that the evo 8/9 rotor are 12" I don't think we are going to experience anything but really nice gains in braking performance. Can anyone do a calculation to prove this?
Chris
I'm going to keep it simple and not get into all the numbers. Just compare for yourself.
DSM AWD front caliper piston diameters are 42.9 and 42.9, mounted on a small rotor.
EVO VIII front caliper piston diameters are 40mm and 46mm, mounted on a larger rotor.
CTS-V front caliper piston diameters are 36mm and 40mm, mounted on a huge rotor.
In the end the CTS-V kit with 14" rotors will give you roughly the same exact brake torque as stock AWD front brakes, ignoring brake pad compounds and sizes. Note that the EVO brakes have more front brake torque than the stock AWD brakes, the EVO rear have more brake torque and should even the bias out fine.
Camaro SS calipers (even more cheap...about $88 each.) I beleive also have a 130mm bolt spacing but I'm not 100% sure yet. camaro ss has a 14mm mounting bolt. The caliper alsois anodized black so we can just strip that ugle chevy lettering right off.
Camaro ss part numbers 92233188 & 92233189
Last edited by m_0ney_pit; 09-01-2009 at 07:54 PM.
I'm going to keep it simple and not get into all the numbers. Just compare for yourself.
DSM AWD front caliper piston diameters are 42.9 and 42.9, mounted on a small rotor.
EVO VIII front caliper piston diameters are 40mm and 46mm, mounted on a larger rotor.
CTS-V front caliper piston diameters are 36mm and 40mm, mounted on a huge rotor.
Uhhh... I'm confused with your numbers. Remember, there are an extra two pistons per caliper than the stock dual piston calipers we've got. So, are you saying there are two 36mm pistons and two 40mm pisons on the CTS-v calipers? If so, then that's a total piston surface area of 152mm that the hydraulic fluid gets to act upon per caliper. Stock DPC's have 85.8mm of total piston surface area. That's almost double the surface area.
So, if I'm looking at this right...
Order of braking power potential:
EVO Brembos #1
CTS-V Brembos #2
Stock DPC's #3
BTW, where did you get your numbers from? I searched and searched and couldn't find anything!
Edit: There is also an option for 6 piston calipers. Let's see if we can get that part number!! Should bolt up the same... If they do in fact bolt up!
____________________________
Kletke - 16g @ 27psi on Meth
Uhhh... I'm confused with your numbers. Remember, there are an extra two pistons per caliper than the stock dual piston calipers we've got.
DPCs are sliding calipers, and have the same effective piston area as 4-piston calipers.
I'm not criticizing, just asking if anyone had done the math on this. I spent a lot of time tweaking the hydraulic and mechanical bias to get it right for the BBK on my MR2, so I was wondering what the numbers were for DSMs..
Quote:
Note that the EVO brakes have more front brake torque than the stock AWD brakes
They look about the same. 42.9 x 4 = 8.96 sq in.
(40 x 2) + (46 x 2) = 9.00 sq in.
There's a 0.4% difference in piston area between the GSX calipers and the EVO calipers.
The CTS-V calipers are 7.031 sq in (same piston areas as the porsche 996C4- are CTS calipers monoblock or two piece?). That's a ~22% reduction in clamping force. What's the difference in effective rotor lever arm? (hub center to halfway point of swept area)
I suppose it could be pretty close to perfect, but it's always better to know for sure, right?
Chris and I are going to be testing these in the future and doing a full test with only the ugraded 2 pot brakes on, upgraded evo rears and 2 pot fronts, CTSV front and stock rears, and CTSV and evo rears. And see how hard and can brake and how fast.
James
____________________________
:91 Talon TSi AWD HX40
I was able to confirm that the Camaro SS Brembos are also a bolt-on part. Not sure what the piston diameter of these is however. This maybe the same caliper as the cts-v.
The GXP caliper also has the 130mm bolt spacing, however they accept a 12mm mounting bolt instead of our 14mm. Theoretically they could be drilled and tapped for 14mm very easily considering they are made from aluminum. The GXP calipers i believe also have the larger pistons found on the sti,evo,g35.
What year camaro? What is the stock size of the dsm rotor?
Is the camaro caliper a 4piston? If it's only a 2 piston you might as well get gsx calipers.
I was able to confirm that the camaro ss brembos are also a bolt on part. Not sure what the piston diameter of these is however. This maybe the same caliper as the cts-v.
The GXP caliper also has the 130mm bolt spacing, however they accept a 12mm mounting bolt instead of our 14mm. Theoretically they could be drilled and tapped for 14mm very easily considering they are made from aluminum. The GXP calipers i believe also have the larger pistons found on the sti,evo,g35.
Can anyone get these part numbers or specs?
what year camaro?
i know that 4th gen camaros are not 4pots lol, my 98 Z28 has 2pot calipers. and 4th gen SS have the same brakes as Z28's
here is a 4th gen camaro SS front calipers
unless you mean 2010 camaro SS, now i dont know if those come with brembo's or not
if they do it would be hard to believe they are only $88 lol
last years 2009 model camaro ss , i posted the part numbers earlier
They are super cheap because something happened were gm had to put weights on the calipers to keep the noise down.problem has since been corrected so I suspect they ordered a metric ton of these things to replace any brakes that would ever go bad on the cars that were already equipped with them. lucky us
hmm, must be a early production error or something? ### camaros did not come out until 2010, so i don't think there is any 2009, except concepts or something. or the ones that went to dealers early for those show days
and as far as the stock dsm dpc setup being almost equal to the evo 8/9, just take a look at the stock 60-0 mph braking distance. my buddy has an evo with stock brembo's and that car stops way faster that my 2g tsi. the evo is also a bit heavier than a dsm
You guys comparing piston size forget that with hydraulic brakes that the piston area is automatically considered the pad area-not piston area itself.
Well, that settles that.
not sure what you mean here? piston area is piston area. pad area has nothing to do with clamping force. pad mu * clamp force * effective rotor diameter = brake torque. pad area plays no role whatsoever in that calculation.
hydraulic pressure acts on the pistons, not the pads. i'm guessing we're thinking the same thing, but wanted to be clear on it..
it would be pretty hard to believe that stock DSM 2pot calipers would be as good as CTS-V 4pot brembo calipers
equal piston area and available clamping force does not mean equal calipers. the stiffer caliper body and lower weight of the EVO makes them better. the fact that they're fixed 4pot and not the abomination that is the sliding caliper makes them superior, regardless of the clamping force they generate.
Quote:
i would think that the area of 14" rotors would be much better at resisting brake fade right?
it's a deeper bucket to dump heat into, that's all. weight = thermal mass to dump heat into. a smaller diameter rotor that is thicker would accomplish the same thing.
you guys are lucky DSMs have so many direct bolt-on options. i just think it's a good idea to do the engineering homework before they ever get bolted onto a car is all.
that's actually why i still hang out here- far more interesting projects going on than on the MR2 boards.
Remember, there are an extra two pistons per caliper than the stock dual piston calipers we've got. So, are you saying there are two 36mm pistons and two 40mm pisons on the CTS-v calipers? If so, then that's a total piston surface area of 152mm that the hydraulic fluid gets to act upon per caliper. Stock DPC's have 85.8mm of total piston surface area. That's almost double the surface area.
