Till I get some more money saved I am running eibach prokit/tokico 5 ways, do you think that is enough height to clear the 17x9?
I am gonna roll the fenders too, main reason I want to know is if it want I guess I will go ahead and splurge on some coilovers, but I rather not at this point because money is tight
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17x9s with 255/40 tires and a 30mm or less offset should be a good match for a 2g, but you should be prepared for the result: a lot of fender rolling, especially if the car is lowered. (The Prokit setup probably dropped you something like 1.5" or so, right?) Even then, if you're too low, you could still see tire-to-fender contact on hard bumps; consider the surfaces your car sees before putting something large in the wheelwells, and "make room" accordingly.
Also, keep in mind that you'll be looking at a bit of tire protrusion; Martin's setup with 255/40/17s on 17x9+35 wheels is an exceptionally tight fit, but doesn't stick out (much). Going with a slightly more sane 30mm or 27mm offset takes care of that clearance issue nicely, but you'll see up to about a centimeter (about 0.4 inches) of protrusion. If this is a problem for you (or your racing class), you might be looking at needing fender flares or similar bodywork.
(FYI, I'm probably the 2g guy that Mitch is referring to. I'll be running a 17x9 with +27mm offset.)
They carry lug nuts too but I did not ask about them yet.
Just some more info here:
Of the shelf wheels in Pro Race 1 don’t have the hub-center sized for a Mitsubishi and they use other lug nuts than the EVO OE like the FQ400 does. The FQ400 wheels are actually the 1.2 in 17x8 and high gloss black( which is not available in the other 1.2 wheels). The 1.2 are the same wheels they use in ETCC (multi-lugs) and BTCC (center lug configuration).
Team Dynamics cannot however sell the Mitsu logo center caps that come on the FQ400 EVO because of legal matters.
24 lbs?!?! Oh man, I thought we were going to be in the 18-19 lb range. That's a full 8 lbs heavier per wheel than my Kosei K1's that are on there right now. Granted, these wheels would be 1.5" wider than my K1's, but that is still a lot heavier than I had originally thought.
What is our offset going to be?
____________________________
-Chris
FP3150-powered road racer!
Please use the "Site Problems" forum or the "Tech" forums instead of sending "help" questions directly to me or the Moderators/Wisemen.
I don’t see any K1’s being used in any serious road racing competition in Europe.
Everybody needs to understand a few things regarding road racing wheels. They need to be strong enough and light enough to do the job.And they HAVE to accept the biggest brakes posible.
Quote form http://www.teamdynamicsracing.com/pr...Pro-race12.htm
“We are proud to declare their position of exclusive wheel supplier to the British Touring Car Championship at just 10.5kg with centre lock fixing and drive pegs.” That’s 23.1lbs. And that’s light enough for them. Why? Because they are strong enough to do the job and that is more important than weight. That together with the room for brakes and cooling.
“This wheel is now extensively used in ETCC and other motorsport championships throughout the World, with wheels from just 9.0kg with standard PCD fixing!!” That’s 19.8lbs. And that’s very close to what we will be running but because of a smaller offset we might be a few pounds heavier. Do I care about a few pounds? Certainly not more than I care about how strong they are.
Bottom line is that a while back I talked to the tech Guru over at TD and weight was one of the main subjects we discussed. He told me that it would be very easy to machine some more of the center of the wheel to make it lighter but that would make it weaker. FWD platform based cars do not have all the room in the world especially in the front. To be able to put the biggest brakes you can on a racing application you need a wheel that is designed with enough room in that critical area. Multi-spoke wheels can be made with thinner spokes that are basically arching quite a bit to allow for brakes. That is why the center of the wheel needs to be stronger therefore heavier.
Look at WRC for example. They are running the same style rims on tarmac and they use 15” brakes under 18” wheels. Why? Because they CAN AND NEED to use the biggest brakes possible. You can bet that those wheels are a lot heavier than a road racing one.
The Enkei F1 for example has the spokes a lot closer to the center so they are a lot straighter than and OZ Superturismo Corsa or Team Dynamic one. Therefore they can be made thinner and the center of the wheel is not as big. That’s weight saving but what’s the biggest brake you can put in there? I don’t think you can put 355x32mm(14”x1.25”) on a FWD style car like ours, at leas not without going to an extreme on the offset. That’s why they are not concerned about how the air escapes from a bigger rotor and made that all around lip that makes the wheels look smaller than 17”.
Road racing is a totally different animal than autocross. Street wheels can be made lighter and weaker because if you bend them in a pothole you will not blame the manufacturer but buy some more from them because they are light.
Take a better look at the file I've sent you and you will understand more what I'm talking about.
Our offset will be +27mm.
Mitch, I understand your argument completely. I'm just wondering if I need the same durability that the cars in the BTCC and ETCC require, especially at the expense of 8 lbs per wheel (32 lbs total). The furthest I plan on going with this car is Time Trials - I won't be running the car in Super Unlimited with Greg. I'm just thinking in terms of what I need for my goals. The Kosei K1-TS comes in 17x9 and weighs in at 16 lbs. I'm not sure if they have an offset that would work, but it's possible. I also don't know if they'd clear the brakes, but I can find out. If the specs worked out right, it would make this a tough decision. Proven road race durability but heavy VS. lightweight and autocross proven.
I'll have to go over and ask some more NASA guys what they think. I wish these things were under 20 lbs, as it would be a no-brainer for me then.
By the way, I didn't receive a file from you lately, did you just send it?
____________________________
-Chris
FP3150-powered road racer!
Please use the "Site Problems" forum or the "Tech" forums instead of sending "help" questions directly to me or the Moderators/Wisemen.
Wheels, wheels, wheels… Is it all about weight? Weight to horsepower: 8lbs. = 1hp. Depending on what series your running in, weather it’s a race class of time trials your horsepower to weight ratio determines your class.
In road racing you want durability; something that will take the “g-force” stress of a 150+ mph power drift, or the constant pounding of an off camber relatively high rumble strip at the apex of a turn that sets you up for a straight. The problem I’ve been having with my custom made 13lb. $550.00 per wheel, is the fact that they have to manufacture the center (hub) of the wheel with so much mass that the airflow is totally restricted. Included is the mass of material at that connection to the bell that only gives the micro millimeter clearance for the big brake calipers and rotors. Again with this minimal clearance brake ducting seems to be futile.
So if I go back to the weight to horsepower concept and I’m adding 32 ponds of weight evenly distributed at all four corners of the car, my loss is 4hp. I’m gaining unrestricted air flow to my brakes which relives “fade”, and I’m able to maintain consistent lap times which gives me an edge over my competitor. The added clearance can also incorporate a larger rotor and caliber adding to that edge. Road racers use brakes to slow the car down and gears to speed the car up. Since I’ve added the StopTechs I’ve been able to out brake full race Porsches by a good 25 feet...
24 lbs sounds a bit high; the 17x8s are only in the 17 lbs range...
I made a mistake on the wheels weight because the heaviest these wheels can be is 9.5Kg which is just shy of 20lbs and that is on a 4 lugs configuration and minimum offset.
Going to 5 lugs makes the wheel lighter and obviously going to a higher offset takes additional weight off of it.
So I apologize for the misinformation but like I said it wouldn’t have made any difference to me if they would have been 4-5 lbs heavier than that if that’s what it would have taken to have the wheel strong enough. Weight equally distributed on each of the 4 corners of the car the closest possible to the ground is not that bad after all.
At about 19lbs it does however sound a lot better now doesn’t it?
I made a mistake on the wheels weight because the heaviest these wheels can be is 9.5Kg which is just shy of 20lbs and that is on a 4 lugs configuration and minimum offset.
Going to 5 lugs makes the wheel lighter and obviously going to a higher offset takes additional weight off of it.
So I apologize for the misinformation but like I said it wouldn’t have made any difference to me if they would have been 4-5 lbs heavier than that if that’s what it would have taken to have the wheel strong enough. Weight equally distributed on each of the 4 corners of the car the closest possible to the ground is not that bad after all.
At about 19lbs it does however sound a lot better now doesn’t it?
It does. Maybe I'm just being too anal about weight reduction, but I've worked pretty hard to get the car down to 2900 lbs without gutting it, so any additional weight MUST be absolutely worth it. That's why I stepped back when you said 24 lbs. When you say 19 lbs, it sounds much more reasonable. I don't need the lightest wheel, but choosing a 24 lb wheel when there are plenty of decent 16 lb wheels out there would have been much more difficult.
Now I have another question Mitch - I know the lead time on these will take long, but what if we do end up bending a wheel (not that they should bend according to TD)? Will the lead time to get a replacement be another 6-8 weeks? That's another concern. If I went with the alternative I'd only be out 2 weeks waiting for a replacement in most cases from TireRack. What's the availability going to be like? 6-8 weeks could be the entire racing season out here.
____________________________
-Chris
FP3150-powered road racer!
Please use the "Site Problems" forum or the "Tech" forums instead of sending "help" questions directly to me or the Moderators/Wisemen.
...
Now I have another question Mitch - I know the lead time on these will take long, but what if we do end up bending a wheel (not that they should bend according to TD)? Will the lead time to get a replacement be another 6-8 weeks? That's another concern. If I went with the alternative I'd only be out 2 weeks waiting for a replacement in most cases from TireRack. What's the availability going to be like? 6-8 weeks could be the entire racing season out here.
Well, at such a good deal you could buy two sets, use them with different tires and in case something goes wrong...
Or you could do something else too. Since everybody else wanted Anthracite including me you can choose those too. I don’t have an engine for my car and there are no signs of building one in the near future so if you need one… http://www.engintecs.com/gallery2/ma...g2_itemId=3550
That is only a 7" but you can see the color.
2. How much? Somebody asked about 20 emails ago, and there has been no answer that I see.
3. I already have five 17x9 in. SSR wheels, and all I want is four wheels for rain tires. I was thinking the Cobra SVT wheels until all this came along. For rain, do I need such a tough wheel? Or should I be thinking these for race and use the SSRs for rains?
Rich,
Get in touch with Greg and he will give you some details. Check your PM's (Private Messages).
I won't be able to get back on the board for a day or so.
Rich,
Get in touch with Greg and he will give you some details. Check your PM's (Private Messages).
I won't be able to get back on the board for a day or so.
2. How much? Somebody asked about 20 emails ago, and there has been no answer that I see.
3. I already have five 17x9 in. SSR wheels, and all I want is four wheels for rain tires. I was thinking the Cobra SVT wheels until all this came along. For rain, do I need such a tough wheel? Or should I be thinking these for race and use the SSRs for rains?
Rich
Your SSR's are 17x9? Those things fit awesome clearance-wise, what size tire are you running? Is there any more body work than meets the eye on your car? It looks really stock!
Your SSR's are 17x9? Those things fit awesome clearance-wise, what size tire are you running? Is there any more body work than meets the eye on your car? It looks really stock!
2. How much? Somebody asked about 20 emails ago, and there has been no answer that I see.
3. I already have five 17x9 in. SSR wheels, and all I want is four wheels for rain tires. I was thinking the Cobra SVT wheels until all this came along. For rain, do I need such a tough wheel? Or should I be thinking these for race and use the SSRs for rains?
Rich
Rich,
The offset we chose will fit any Mitsubishi application from a 1G all the way to an EVO one.
I would use these for race and the SSR for rain.
Well, at such a good deal you could buy two sets, use them with different tires and in case something goes wrong...
Or you could do something else too. Since everybody else wanted Anthracite including me you can choose those too. I don’t have an engine for my car and there are no signs of building one in the near future so if you need one… http://www.engintecs.com/gallery2/ma...g2_itemId=3550
That is only a 7" but you can see the color.
Chris,
Are you still going with the silver ones? Guys are thinking about what you said and order extra wheels just in case.
Yeah, I'm going with Silver. I wish I had the cash to do two sets right now... We still have to pay our tax bill and a few other things - everything's coming up at once. Times are tight and the money I got from selling my old wheels is disappearing quickly - I wish I had more stuff I could sell, anyone want to buy an almost new lawn mower?
____________________________
-Chris
FP3150-powered road racer!
Please use the "Site Problems" forum or the "Tech" forums instead of sending "help" questions directly to me or the Moderators/Wisemen.
