Wideband O2's-DIY and OTS - Page 2

GrocMax · 12-20-2002, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rdrkt
A wideband wont be very accurate if it is that far down stream. I just replace my stock 02 sensor with the wideband 02 sensor.

You are incorrect on both counts, Sir.

Factory location can overheat the L1H1 sensor in some cases, and as long as the exhaust system is leak-free, and the wideband heater works OK, tailpipe sampling is not a problem, you just need to compensate for time delay in logs.

All the feedback I get on this (DIY) unit is that it is not accurate enough to be considered for serious use. They even make the disclaimer themselves on partial gas pressure inconsistencies.

irn__man · 12-30-2002, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GrocMax

You are incorrect on both counts, Sir.

Factory location can overheat the L1H1 sensor in some cases, and as long as the exhaust system is leak-free, and the wideband heater works OK, tailpipe sampling is not a problem, you just need to compensate for time delay in logs.

All the feedback I get on this (DIY) unit is that it is not accurate enough to be considered for serious use. They even make the disclaimer themselves on partial gas pressure inconsistencies.

Could you place the wideband sensor in the 2nd Stock O2 sensor bung on a 2G DSM?

iron

dyezak · 12-30-2002, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rdrkt
and to my knowledge it doesn’t have an output to be logged by a standalone.

Hah, we have been blessed once again...the AEM EMS will read off this sensor and AUTO TUNE the car by itself.

You just set the A/F ratio you want it to tune for and how large a change it can make at any given time along with how much data it much logg in that rpm/load cell before it decides to change it...then BAM...auto tune............

GrocMax · 12-30-2002, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by irn__man

Could you place the wideband sensor in the 2nd Stock O2 sensor bung on a 2G DSM?

iron

Yes, as long as there are no leaks upstream of the sensor.

rdrkt · 12-30-2002, 11:10 AM

Yeah Tech Edge updated their design to accommodate that. Unfortunately I havent had a running car to really get to work with this yet. GSX4Life has gotten more use out of it then I have

dyezak · 12-30-2002, 11:16 AM

I am so ready to have my car back together and get this damn ice off the roads so I can drive my beast this spring....I know how you feel.

ghettodsm · 01-09-2003, 08:30 PM

ok that does sound awesome but i have a couple questions. im not really sure on this but since im a noob heh, here it goes. Ok i want to get the o2 elimantor downpipe from my buddy who has one right now for a decent price but i would also like to get this wideband o2 for tuning and other obvious reasons.

im lost, i thought it was better to get rid of the o2 sensor? bah any help would be great because i dont want to get this and find out i cant use it with my o2 elimantor d/p laterz all,kevin.

direw0lf · 01-13-2003, 08:19 AM

Ghetto, I think you misunderstand.

The O2 eliminator downpipe doesn't do away with the O2 sensor. It does away with the cast O2 housing. Your car will not run properly without having the required O2 Sensor/s. The ECU in your car adjusts fuel based on the O2 Sensor readings. without that, your ECU has no data to work for adjusting misture.

ZSPTurbo · 01-13-2003, 04:49 PM

okokokokokok, someone PLEASE explain this to me.... what is wrong with the stock O2 sensor? please excuse me if I sound like a moron. and what is diffrent about wideband O2?
sorry, I just dont understand this.

dyezak · 01-14-2003, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZSPTurbo
okokokokokok, someone PLEASE explain this to me.... what is wrong with the stock O2 sensor? please excuse me if I sound like a moron. and what is diffrent about wideband O2?
sorry, I just dont understand this.

#1 What's wrong with the stock o2 sensor.

Before I say what is wrong with the stock o2 I'd like to define 2 words first so we can all be on the same page. Accuracy and Precision.

Accuracy is the ability for a measuring device to give a correct answer. Think of accuracy like this, if I'm shooting a gun at a target and hit the bullseye I'm accurate...I hit what I aimed for.

Precision is the ability to obtain repetable results. Think of precision like this, if I'm shooting a gun at a target and I hit 2" to the left of bullseye I'm not accurate (I didn't hit what I aimed for), but every time I shoot I hit 2" left of the bullseye...so I'm precise.

Now, what's wrong with the stock o2 sensor...It's HIGHLY inaccurate but moderately precise, and over time it looses it's precision. Also it is a narrow band o2 sensor, meaning tha it will only read an a/f ratio of about 14-15.1:1. Any richer than that and all it know's is "I'm rich, don't know how rich, but I'm rich" and any leaner than that and it thinks "I'm lean, how lean I don't know". It is meant to give fine adjustments to an ecu that is already in perfect tune. It's meant to compensate for small factors...clogged fuel filter, sticky injector, degrading compression etc. Start doing some wild #### and it alone can't compensate...this is why we have SAFC's and EMS's.

#2 Wideband differences

Wideband o2 sensors are designed and built to a higher standard, which accounts (minutely) for it's high price. They are VERY precise and pretty darn accurate. Now, what's cool is they are adjustable so you can make them more accurate (sort of like adjustable sites on your gun so you can move that shot 2" to the right to hit the bullseye). It uses a tunable resistor (pointiometer) to tune the o2 sensor to a VERY high degree of accuracy. Also (as the name implies) they see a very wide band of a/f ratio's (usually 8:1 - 20:1) so no matter where you are you know how rich/lean you are and can tune your car accordingly.

Hope this helps.

ZSPTurbo · 01-14-2003, 10:21 AM

well, if you are getting all your tuning done at a shop, you dont need it, right?
basically the lightweight guys like me have no need for it, right?

also: can you do minor tuning with a stock (type) O2 sensor? Like, if I have an AEM EMS, and I got it tuned already, but I replace my injectors with something bigger, and a bigger fuel pump, would I be able to do that re-tuning without the wideband?

last question: can you get your regular O2 to have a wider band? like, somehow modify the stock unit or something?

JET · 01-18-2003, 08:40 PM

No you can't get your stock O2 sensor to have a wider band. And no you shouldn't use it to try and tune your car, ever. An EGT is better than the stock O2, but none compare to the wideband. For $175, why play around with your engine?

ZSPTurbo · 01-22-2003, 04:09 PM

how accurate is this? could I connect it to an AEM EMS and it would autotune correctly?

rdrkt · 01-22-2003, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZSPTurbo
how accurate is this? could I connect it to an AEM EMS and it would autotune correctly?

The tech edge kit is pretty much dead on when compared to other kits. I am pretty sure that the current tech edge kit can output to the AEM so it can be logged and be used for the "auto tune" but Im not postive.

JET · 01-22-2003, 08:05 PM

Yes, you can autotune with it. It will not be a perfect map, but a good starting point. If you know of someone with a setup very similiar to yours and has it tuned well, start with that. These WB are pretty dang accurate. I have the DIY kit, not the techedge/OZ. It took a bit to put together, but it wasn't that hard. It is cheaper than the OZ and doesn't use a proprietory cable (read cheaper to install). Total I have about $165 into my kit with the sensor ($130 for the sensor). Logging the O2 sensor and adjusting the maps on the AEM is where it is invaluable.

ghettodsm · 01-23-2003, 03:34 PM

i would like more info on this could i get the sites of all the manufacturers of these wide band o2 as they seem like they help a great deal with tuning. thank you,kevin.

autronicDSM · 01-24-2003, 07:03 PM

Bosch LSM11 (part# 0 258 104 002) is a popular wideband o2 sensor but I think it costs more then NTK sensor off a civic. Oh yea...it's also lead tolerant

Motec also uses Bosch LSU-4 sensor

ghettodsm · 01-24-2003, 07:36 PM

any others? and i could get url's to a shop that has these? im lost hehe thanks,kevin.

autronicDSM · 01-24-2003, 08:27 PM

Try www.aussieimportsllc.com for Bosch. I don't know any others. Try calling any dealers that sell Motec stuff.

jdmawd · 01-30-2003, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 95GST
I'm interested, what is the catch?

How come serious systems cost $1000 and this is only $300?

How much would the civic O2 sensor approximately cost..?

How many hours will it last before a new sensor is required.

About the voltage issue, I think there may be a problem with my car as it can definately dip below 13V at times. However, I believe a $40 voltage regulator should solve the problem.

I have been thinking of a wide band however just couldn't justify the cost of a $1000 system.

in addition to the above, hks has just released this product.

quote from hks-usa web page
The HKS A/F Knock Amp with its built-in digital display and face mounted controls is deal for high performance engine tuning. This wide band Air/Fuel monitoring device offers visual and audible warnings for precision tuning.

I personally like the idea of audible knock and lean warning, with a back lit color display. That's compact and easy to mount. as said above, looking at the logger while making 80+ mph tuning runs. Is not the best idea, when tuning alone.

JET · 01-31-2003, 12:44 AM

Here is the most popular one and people usually buy it pre-built.

http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/default.htm

That is the OZ kit, if you want to go cheap and build it yourself head here

http://www.diy-wb.com/info.htm#order

That last one is the kit I got and I have under $200 into it with box and barrier strips. Looks great! It does take a bit of time to build though. Both use the Honda sensor (bosch L1H1 made by NTK)

rdrkt · 01-31-2003, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JET
Here is the most popular one and people usually buy it pre-built.

http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/default.htm

That is the OZ kit, if you want to go cheap and build it yourself head here

Hey genius I posted that back in September

People can simply refer to the VERY FIRST POST on this thread to read up on the Tech edge kit. You linking this annoys the crap out of me. It shows that you didn’t read through the post but you just had to share your two cents. Hey you know what I even posted this link on what 02 sensor to use and where to get it. Its not like you had to read through the whole posts it’s the very first post!