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Dyno Talk: For all the DSM dyno queens. Discuss dyno results here. For tuning discussions, use the Tuning Forum.

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Old 05-08-2011, 11:57 AM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #21 (permalink)
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I think he just means that most people do 4th gear pulls because it puts a higher, more realistic work load on the engine than a 3rd gear run.



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Old 05-08-2011, 12:07 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #22 (permalink)
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good numbers


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Old 05-08-2011, 12:07 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #23 (permalink)
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third gear inflates the numbers 4th gear is the true 1:1 for dyno pulls
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Old 05-08-2011, 01:45 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icemanracing View Post
third gear inflates the numbers 4th gear is the true 1:1 for dyno pulls
you should alway do a 1:1 pull now matter the gear wether it be 3, 4, or 5th gear. in your case its 4th gear. what were your 4th gear numbers?
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Old 05-08-2011, 01:54 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icemanracing View Post
third gear inflates the numbers 4th gear is the true 1:1 for dyno pulls
Quote:
Originally Posted by skizzo81 View Post
you should alway do a 1:1 pull now matter the gear wether it be 3, 4, or 5th gear. in your case its 4th gear. what were your 4th gear numbers?
I appreciate your advice but please bring some facts to the table as to why is 4th gear the 1:1 on my application. This is the way we have tuned the car since day one and it has gotten us to 10.2 @ 139 on the stock block so we must be doing something right or maybe we are just darn lucky.


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Old 05-08-2011, 02:05 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OstarMotorsport View Post
I appreciate your advice but please bring some facts to the table as to why is 4th gear the 1:1 on my application.
Maybe you should have explained in your first post why you used third and why your set up is different then every other dsm. Dyno is just numbers anyway, your times show whats up.
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Old 05-08-2011, 02:08 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OstarMotorsport View Post
I appreciate your advice but please bring some facts to the table as to why is 4th gear the 1:1 on my application. This is the way we have tuned the car since day one and it has gotten us to 10.2 @ 139 on the stock block so we must be doing something right or maybe we are just darn lucky.
ive just always heard of people doing 4th gear pulls. Your numbers are inflated because you are doing a 3rd gear pull. While the power you are making is still extremely impressive 637 (or 638) is not really a realistic number. The reason it reads high which i would assume you should know is because of the gearing. Just like no person does a 1st gear power run on a dyno because 1. the numbers are wayyyy inflated and 2. there is not a smooth curve to tune with.

Im curious to see the amount of power it would make on a 4th gear pull.
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Old 05-08-2011, 02:15 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #28 (permalink)
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Im curious to see the amount of power it would make on a 4th gear pull.
Also wouldn't a third gear pull make the torque read lower because of the differences in load?
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Old 05-08-2011, 02:17 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #29 (permalink)
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Fernando felicidades tremendos numeros dude
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Old 05-08-2011, 02:18 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91stocker View Post
Also wouldn't a third gear pull make the torque read lower because of the differences in load?
im pretty sure it would read higher but im not 100% sure you could be right. think about it if you were riding a bike. When you are going up a hill you go into an easier gear so you can work less and get up the hill. same principle applies.
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Old 05-08-2011, 02:21 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OstarMotorsport View Post
I appreciate your advice but please bring some facts to the table as to why is 4th gear the 1:1 on my application. This is the way we have tuned the car since day one and it has gotten us to 10.2 @ 139 on the stock block so we must be doing something right or maybe we are just darn lucky.
Still most people dyno there cars in fourth gear due to the 1:1 app. That's a fact but regardless your car still posts some nice times especially for a stock bottom end.

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Old 05-08-2011, 02:25 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #32 (permalink)
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just for the record i have seen 3 of the biggest dsm shops do pulls in 3rd gear.


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Old 05-08-2011, 02:25 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #33 (permalink)
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funny thing is that most dsm/evo tunners that i've seen dyno the cars in 3rd gear

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Old 05-08-2011, 03:20 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armandotech View Post
funny thing is that most dsm/evo tunners that i've seen dyno the cars in 3rd gear
I was under the assumption that 3rd was where it is at. Especially for the auto guys.
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Old 05-08-2011, 04:29 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #35 (permalink)
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He probably dynos in 3rd gear because it's much closer to 1:1 than 4th gear is.

Probably why everyone else does too, seems pretty simple to me...


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Old 05-08-2011, 04:45 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #36 (permalink)
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i dont see why all the dip sh!ts are making a big deal of what gear he dyno in.... he originally stated he is chasing the stock block 1/4 time not the stock block hp record. get off his nuts

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Old 05-08-2011, 04:49 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #37 (permalink)
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Does Mike R currently hold that record? (9.9X if I recall) Mike is only a stock short block though with a Buschur stage 3 head. I might be off, but that's what I remember from searching it and watching his YouTube video's.


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Old 05-08-2011, 04:59 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #38 (permalink)
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Freakin noobs.

3rd gear is pretty standard for DSM dyno tuning. If anything, his numbers are LOWER thanks to the 3rd gear pull. The taller the gear, the higher a dynojet will read.

Here's why:

"Higher ratio gears will give you lower chassis dyno numbers for a strange, but logical reason. In essence, the DynoJet calculates hp based on the time it takes to spin up the 2800lb roller assembly. It's basically work divided by time and rpm. Think about this: If you car is at idle in neutral and you stab the throttle, it will take time to accelerate to redline...let's say 1.1 seconds. Now let's say it takes 8.2 seconds for your car to accelerate the DynoJet from low speed to top speed with 3.23 gears and 7.3 seconds with 3.73 gears. Dyno printout says 355 rwhp with 3.23 gears and 346 rwhp with 3.73 gears...why?

Think aabout this: In the 8.2 seconds it takes to spin the rollers with 3.23 gears, it would still take the motor about 1.1 seconds to overcome its own inertia (idle to redline). There's about 13.4% of the work used just to accelerate the motor itself. With 3.73 gears, the time to reach redline decreases to 7.3 seconds. Divide the 1.1 seconds into the 7.3 seconds and you will see that overcoming the internal engine inertia costs 15.1% of the work with 3.73 gears. There is less hp available during this time period to spin the rollers so the DynoJet will read a slightly lower hp figure. Make sense, or did I lose you?"


Quote:
Originally Posted by e85_4g63 View Post
Does Mike R currently hold that record? (9.9X if I recall) Mike is only a stock short block though with a Buschur stage 3 head. I might be off, but that's what I remember from searching it and watching his YouTube video's.
Yes, he does. That block cracked where the bell-housing bolts up (what a silly way for that legendary block to die) and he sold the turbo, not sure what he might be planning.


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Old 05-08-2011, 05:03 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #39 (permalink)
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Are you running e85 on that run? Was one jay racing pump not enough? Shed any light on your IDC's or fuel flow out of the jay racing pumps?
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Old 05-08-2011, 05:14 PM Show Printable Version Show Printable Version   Email this Post to a Friend Email this Post      #40 (permalink)
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Found a good quote on that subject:

"the reason for the dyno in the 1:1 gear ratio is due to the Dynojet. Dynojet mathematically creates a horsepower number based on mass (which is the known weight of the rollers) and accleration (how fast the car is accelerating the known weight).

F=ma

From force (F), we can calculate horsepower.

Dyno the car in 2nd gear, and acceleration (a) goes way up, causing force (F) to go way up.

So by dynoing the car in the gear closest to the 1:1 gear ratio, we eliminate any acceleration advantage or disadvantage caused by the transmission, which gives us unskewed whp numbers (even though Dynojet has a fudge factor in there which makes them skewed anyways and read high).

As for other dynos out there (i.e. Mustang and Dyno Dynamics) - they use a load cell to measure roll force (the amount of force the tire is placing on the roller). Based on roll force and the radius arm going to the load cell, we get roll torque. Based on roll torque and roll speed, we can get vehicle horsepower. Vehicle horsepower and vehicle RPM gives vehicle torque. It doesn't matter what gear you run in on load cell style dynos as they are measuring force, not acceleration. Force does not change from gear to gear."
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