637whp and 499wtq on the stock 1g 6 bolt motor

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by OstarMotorsport

I appreciate your advice but please bring some facts to the table as to why is 4th gear the 1:1 on my application. This is the way we have tuned the car since day one and it has gotten us to 10.2 @ 139 on the stock block so we must be doing something right or maybe we are just darn lucky.

Still most people dyno there cars in fourth gear due to the 1:1 app. That's a fact but regardless your car still posts some nice times especially for a stock bottom end.

[nitrouskris]

just for the record i have seen 3 of the biggest dsm shops do pulls in 3rd gear.

[Armandotech]

funny thing is that most dsm/evo tunners that i've seen dyno the cars in 3rd gear

[rEclipserGST]

Originally Posted by Armandotech

funny thing is that most dsm/evo tunners that i've seen dyno the cars in 3rd gear

I was under the assumption that 3rd was where it is at. Especially for the auto guys.

[RadDsm]

He probably dynos in 3rd gear because it's much closer to 1:1 than 4th gear is.

Probably why everyone else does too, seems pretty simple to me...

[rdgsdsm]

i dont see why all the dip sh!ts are making a big deal of what gear he dyno in.... he originally stated he is chasing the stock block 1/4 time not the stock block hp record. get off his nuts

[e85_4g63]

Does Mike R currently hold that record? (9.9X if I recall) Mike is only a stock short block though with a Buschur stage 3 head. I might be off, but that's what I remember from searching it and watching his YouTube video's.

[BigBeans]

Freakin noobs.

3rd gear is pretty standard for DSM dyno tuning. If anything, his numbers are LOWER thanks to the 3rd gear pull. The taller the gear, the higher a dynojet will read.

Here's why:

"Higher ratio gears will give you lower chassis dyno numbers for a strange, but logical reason. In essence, the DynoJet calculates hp based on the time it takes to spin up the 2800lb roller assembly. It's basically work divided by time and rpm. Think about this: If you car is at idle in neutral and you stab the throttle, it will take time to accelerate to redline...let's say 1.1 seconds. Now let's say it takes 8.2 seconds for your car to accelerate the DynoJet from low speed to top speed with 3.23 gears and 7.3 seconds with 3.73 gears. Dyno printout says 355 rwhp with 3.23 gears and 346 rwhp with 3.73 gears...why?

Think aabout this: In the 8.2 seconds it takes to spin the rollers with 3.23 gears, it would still take the motor about 1.1 seconds to overcome its own inertia (idle to redline). There's about 13.4% of the work used just to accelerate the motor itself. With 3.73 gears, the time to reach redline decreases to 7.3 seconds. Divide the 1.1 seconds into the 7.3 seconds and you will see that overcoming the internal engine inertia costs 15.1% of the work with 3.73 gears. There is less hp available during this time period to spin the rollers so the DynoJet will read a slightly lower hp figure. Make sense, or did I lose you?"

Originally Posted by e85_4g63

Does Mike R currently hold that record? (9.9X if I recall) Mike is only a stock short block though with a Buschur stage 3 head. I might be off, but that's what I remember from searching it and watching his YouTube video's.

Yes, he does. That block cracked where the bell-housing bolts up (what a silly way for that legendary block to die) and he sold the turbo, not sure what he might be planning.

[VETTE_50_TH]

Are you running e85 on that run? Was one jay racing pump not enough? Shed any light on your IDC's or fuel flow out of the jay racing pumps?

[91stocker]

Found a good quote on that subject:

"the reason for the dyno in the 1:1 gear ratio is due to the Dynojet. Dynojet mathematically creates a horsepower number based on mass (which is the known weight of the rollers) and accleration (how fast the car is accelerating the known weight).

F=ma

From force (F), we can calculate horsepower.

Dyno the car in 2nd gear, and acceleration (a) goes way up, causing force (F) to go way up.

So by dynoing the car in the gear closest to the 1:1 gear ratio, we eliminate any acceleration advantage or disadvantage caused by the transmission, which gives us unskewed whp numbers (even though Dynojet has a fudge factor in there which makes them skewed anyways and read high).

As for other dynos out there (i.e. Mustang and Dyno Dynamics) - they use a load cell to measure roll force (the amount of force the tire is placing on the roller). Based on roll force and the radius arm going to the load cell, we get roll torque. Based on roll torque and roll speed, we can get vehicle horsepower. Vehicle horsepower and vehicle RPM gives vehicle torque. It doesn't matter what gear you run in on load cell style dynos as they are measuring force, not acceleration. Force does not change from gear to gear."

[skizzo81]

lesson learned here is just run your car in the gear which is 1:1. here are the gears for people who dont know.

3 speed = 3rd gear
4 speed = 3rd gear
5 speed = 4th gear
6 speed = 4th gear or 5th gear depending on if it has a double o/d

[hypergenesis]

Still seems like people don't understand the fact that with his setup and tune and everything he does his pulls in 3rd gear.
More members brought proof the the table showing that his 3rd gear pull was correct than random people just saying 4th gear is where it's at. I have yet to see someone bring a good amount of proof stating why a 4th gear pull is better. For his setup, from my understanding, a 3rd gear dyno run will give him the closest 1:1 ratio. The guy obviously knows what he is doing if hes putting out over 600 WHP even if its stupidly inflated and its only 500whp, which I doubt it being that low, thats still more than a mass majority of members. I don't think he built a car without knowing the simple knowledge of dynoing the car so yea.

[skizzo81]

Originally Posted by hypergenesis

Still seems like people don't understand the fact that with his setup and tune and everything he does his pulls in 3rd gear.
More members brought proof the the table showing that his 3rd gear pull was correct than random people just saying 4th gear is where it's at. I have yet to see someone bring a good amount of proof stating why a 4th gear pull is better. For his setup, from my understanding, a 3rd gear dyno run will give him the closest 1:1 ratio. The guy obviously knows what he is doing if hes putting out over 600 WHP even if its stupidly inflated and its only 500whp, which I doubt it being that low, thats still more than a mass majority of members. I don't think he built a car without knowing the simple knowledge of dynoing the car so yea.

dude 1:1 on and dsm is 4th gear. he can tune in any gear he wants but if he wants to show his max dyno numbers it needs to be in 1:1 which is 4th gear

[RadDsm]

Originally Posted by skizzo81

dude 1:1 on and dsm is 4th gear. he can tune in any gear he wants but if he wants to show his max dyno numbers it needs to be in 1:1 which is 4th gear

Are you high? No DSMs have a 4th gear 1:1 ratio.

Tranny gear ratios for DSMs

[hypergenesis]

Originally Posted by RadDsm

Are you high? No DSM have a 4th gear 1:1 ratio.

Tranny gear ratios for DSMs

See thats what's funny people still think they are right when about 4-5 people have already brought actual evidence and proof.

[nitrouskris]

I feel like some people are shiting on his post...

1. i havnt seen anybody else do what he is doing with all the stock parts

2. he is tuneing HIS car this way and it is working

3. i have seen and have video of half dozen dsm shops doing pulls in 3rd - yes some do in 4th - you ask 10 people you will get 10 diff answer

4.this is why people dont post info on here becasue there is always someone who knows more then you but doesnt have shit to show for it

5. i am sure he will do a pull in 4th to make you guys happy

6. the car also has been at CFT and run on THERE DYNO "MUSTANG" and IF he was going anything wrong someone at CFT would have said something

[hypergenesis]

Originally Posted by nitrouskris

I feel like some people are shiting on his post...

1. i havnt seen anybody else do what he is doing with all the stock parts

2. he is tuneing HIS car this way and it is working

3. i have seen and have video of half dozen dsm shops doing pulls in 3rd - yes some do in 4th - you ask 10 people you will get 10 diff answer

4.this is why people dont post info on here becasue there is always someone who knows more then you but doesnt have shit to show for it

5. i am sure he will do a pull in 4th to make you guys happy

I second this lol

[nitrouskris]

[icemanracing]

Originally Posted by RadDsm

Are you high? No DSMs have a 4th gear 1:1 ratio.

Tranny gear ratios for DSMs

your link shows that the 3rd gear is lower (numericaly higher) than 1:1 thus giving false readings on the dynojet dyno.
Dont get me wrong the numbers wont be a huge difference and the times at the track are where the Proving ground is. He is doing great for those parts.
I am not trying to knock him down or shit on his post but when the Title of the post Makes the hp numbers so Important.
Congrats on the times. but if you want your true numbers you might want to go find one of those heartbreaker dynos to get the true readings. Everybody knows the dynojets are an ego booster.

[DSMReviver]

Ummmm lets get back to his car...

Congrats once again man. I like Stock everything

[skizzo81]

Originally Posted by RadDsm

Are you high? No DSMs have a 4th gear 1:1 ratio.

Tranny gear ratios for DSMs

ok i stand corrected. i can man up and say i was wrong. i just expect everyone else to do the same if the roles are switched.

[hypergenesis]

Originally Posted by skizzo81

ok i stand corrected. i can man up and say i was wrong. i just expect everyone else to do the same if the roles are switched.

Well duh, the biggest part of being competent and intelligent is knowing when your wrong and realizing it if someone can't then jeez hope they never mess up working on their cars

[MI48UR8]

Originally Posted by OstarMotorsport

SAE made 638hp and 500tq


let's see what mph she does at the track so there is no doubt on her numbers... Everyone that knows me knows i am straight up on what i do. I have no need to boost numbers unlike some people.

Oh no questions about your credibility at all. I was just curious. With numbers like that the car should trap 142-144 fairly easily. I'd say you get a single digit timeslip with that as well. What impresses me the most about your combo is how stock it is. Making power like this with the stock intake manifold is incredible. Goodluck next time you guys go to the track

[e85_4g63]

(Ostar) When do you plan on hitting the track next?

[motozachl]

Impressive numbers on a stock block!

[rhamlinii]

This thread is getting out of control." Stock block" is just the icing on the cake gentleman. He's putting the power down, as you can see from his track times. Most of you who seem to be bitching about 3rd and 4th gear dyno pulls have slow cars, that never made a number, or a time. The other people who are bitching, don't tune cars in my opinion. When you put a car on the dyno, you almost always tune in 3rd in just about every car. You mainly would tune in 4th because big turbo cars and some others need the extra load. Also, when your making power, 3rd gear becomes to short. 3rd gear in a dsm is the closest gear ratio to that 1to 1 ratio, compared to 4th gear. If I was tuning the car in question on a stock block, rods, and rod bolts. I would tune the car in 3rd do few pulls in a street tune, and save the rest for the track. We only use the dyno as it was intended. Getting a number at the end of the session, is just something extra . I'm curios how much boost is she running?

[e85_4g63]

Originally Posted by rhamlinii

I'm curios how much boost is she running?

His profile say's 35, and he mentioned in the 621whp post that he up'd the boost from 29 (If I recall) to 35.

[97 AWD NOLAT]

you and a few others have proven the true potential of the stock 4g63 motor keep up the good work bro-dude!!

[OstarMotorsport]

Originally Posted by VETTE_50_TH

Are you running e85 on that run? Was one jay racing pump not enough? Shed any light on your IDC's or fuel flow out of the jay racing pumps?

don't quote me on this but i believe duty cycle was around 68%. I'd have to double check the aem to give you the exact number. I switched to the 2 pumps because i wanted to rev the car higher now that it has the fp springs. The one pump worked incredibly well for 600whp on e85 revving to 8100rpm but i felt that if i went up to 8800 or 9k the system would not be enough, so to be safe i added the extra pump.

Originally Posted by nitrouskris

I feel like some people are shiting on his post...

1. i havnt seen anybody else do what he is doing with all the stock parts

2. he is tuneing HIS car this way and it is working

3. i have seen and have video of half dozen dsm shops doing pulls in 3rd - yes some do in 4th - you ask 10 people you will get 10 diff answer

4.this is why people dont post info on here becasue there is always someone who knows more then you but doesnt have shit to show for it

5. i am sure he will do a pull in 4th to make you guys happy

6. the car also has been at CFT and run on THERE DYNO "MUSTANG" and IF he was going anything wrong someone at CFT would have said something

THANK YOU!

This has gone way off course here. I just wanted to share my results with the community and show just how impressive the stock block really is. I have been doing this for many many years. Funny thing about you mentioning CFT is that i worked for them back in 03-04 when i owned the blue civic si trapping 138-140 and since then i opened my own place and even had a awd dynojet for 2 years. Long story short the economy made me close the mechanical side of the business down and continue just selling parts. But the point is gentleman than it really isnt that hard to know how to dyno or what gear to dyno on and i believe most people would agree so lets please focus on some constructive criticism for our community which is what is important.

Originally Posted by MI48UR8

Oh no questions about your credibility at all. I was just curious. With numbers like that the car should trap 142-144 fairly easily. I'd say you get a single digit timeslip with that as well. What impresses me the most about your combo is how stock it is. Making power like this with the stock intake manifold is incredible. Goodluck next time you guys go to the track

Thats my thought as well. I believe it should do 142-143

Originally Posted by e85_4g63

(Ostar) When do you plan on hitting the track next?

I was planning on going this friday but i ran into a small problem yesterday. I took her out on the street to make sure she was good to go. I made 2 pulls on 3rd gear all the way to 9k and the afr's were doing well so i then attempted a 3rd run and the car went lean so i let off. After checking the fuel system i found that i had dirty injectors. This is the second time that is has happened after switching to e85 last year. I think this problem lies with my stock 1g gas tank. The pumps must be pulling contaminants from the bottom of the tank. The plan is to talk to jmf and order a fuel cell and add a better filter. After that i should be safe to make an all out run.

Originally Posted by rhamlinii

This thread is getting out of control." Stock block" is just the icing on the cake gentleman. He's putting the power down, as you can see from his track times. Most of you who seem to be bitching about 3rd and 4th gear dyno pulls have slow cars, that never made a number, or a time. The other people who are bitching, don't tune cars in my opinion. When you put a car on the dyno, you almost always tune in 3rd in just about every car. You mainly would tune in 4th because big turbo cars and some others need the extra load. Also, when your making power, 3rd gear becomes to short. 3rd gear in a dsm is the closest gear ratio to that 1to 1 ratio, compared to 4th gear. If I was tuning the car in question on a stock block, rods, and rod bolts. I would tune the car in 3rd do few pulls in a street tune, and save the rest for the track. We only use the dyno as it was intended. Getting a number at the end of the session, is just something extra . I'm curios how much boost is she running?

With the Ball bearing unit i was at 35psi and the journal that i have now is at 37psi :

[rhamlinii]

Originally Posted by OstarMotorsport

With the Ball bearing unit i was at 35psi and the journal that i have now is at 37psi :

Sounds like a fun ride. What type of timing does the car like up top? I know you can get aggressive on e85 with the timing map. I'm plan to start small with my set-up, and then turn her up thru out this year. Import vs domestic in november. If she last the long, I'll see what she has. My car is equipped with a bw s366 on a stock block. Keep up the good work. I'm also curious, What class will you run in since you're faster then 10.50's but not quite going as fast as those in true street 8.80's or 9.10's?