Drag Race Build: Project Superman: '90 Talon - building my first drag race car

Superman · 07-03-2009, 08:34 PM

Ok guys, some more updates. I had the day off today, but I didn’t get too much done. I got tied up help some of my friends with their cars. But I did come up with a halfway decent game plan. I read what everyone wrote and this is what I came up with. I already had some of the parts before starting the build (I had to jump on those holiday deals). This helped and hurt me a little.

Block:

I am going with the R&R Aluminum Rods. These rods are simply amazing. I just got them yesterday. I got these through a group buy. These should hold 22mm wrist pins (I have to measure them to make sure).

Regarding pistons, I like the Weisco HDs. (Not sure of a good compression ratio.) I will be staying with the stock crank. Has anyone tried Jays racing billet main caps? I think I might go with kiggly racings girdle

Head:

I am not sure who I will use to port the head, however; I will be using kiggly springs and FP cams (not sure of the grind).

Drive train:

Regarding the drive train; I will be staying 5spd. I will be using either the Shep stage 4 trans or the dog box transmission (the New Jersey shop). I will be using the Shep or DSS upgraded transfer case, DSS driveshaft and axles. I already purchased my clutch. I have the QM twin disk clutch (also got this on sale).

Tires/rims:

I will take twicks69 advice and stay away from drag radials. Hoosiers it is.

Brakes:

Stock brakes with upgraded pads and rotors.

Ignition:

COP. Either the AEM of MSD ignition box

Suspension:

GC combo.

Intake manifold:

I ordered it already (another one of those group buys). I am getting the JMF dual rail Drag Manifold, flanged for Q45 TB, with nitrous bungs. I got the dual rails because I want to run E85. Even if I change my mind I should be ok.

Exhaust manifold:

JMF T4 top mount. I got this manifold while it was on sale (it is more beautiful in person). Welds look good too (not that I could tell the difference, but they look good.) Jim at JMF is the man. While making the manifold, Jim gave me a good price on the down pipes, so I bought them. My only mistake was when he asked me what turbo I was running I told him GT42 (I was sure this was going to be my turbo). Then when you guys mentioned the BW Turbos I started to second guess my decision. All is not lost, Jim said he can modify it if need be.

These are 4inch down pipes

Also got the Waste gate dump tubes.

I mocked it up on an old engine I had on the stand. (Looks good)

Turbo options:

Ok this is simple. I want big. I want bad. I Like the BW S374, and my favorite Garret slug, the GT42. (I know she’s old, but I still like her.)

Shell:

JMF 10 point cage with parachute. I’m not sure about the race seat and the fuel cell.

Fuel:

E85.

twicks69 · 07-03-2009, 10:15 PM

Damn! Looks AWESOME! Good purchases! I really like that 4" downpipe as well! I am assuming that you will be running a remote mounted alternator on the back of the block to make that downpipe fit. If so, look at Jay Racing for the alternator relocation kit. As well, you might want to look at running a Scirocco-style radiator with single or twin puller fans to clear the turbo manfold assembly. As well, you will likely need to run a different main water line. You can run a 16-AN or 20-AN fitting from the water pump to the radiator, and a matching-sized upper radiator line from the thermostat assembly to the radiator.

Great purchases!

As well, if you are going stroker, I would stick away from running Evo3 gears (shep stage 4) as they are a bit short for the mph's that you are going to be seeing with either a GT42-sized turbo or the BW S400SX series turbos. If you stick 2.0L and rev to 10K rpm, then they will be decent, but use a gear calculator to see if they will work for your setup.

Great purchase on the clutch -- you will like it! I would also recommend running a Fluidampr crank pulley to help reduce the drivetrain harmonics that you will see when using a multi-disk clutch, as it will take its toll on your transmission and your main bearings. The harmonics are greatly reduced when running the Fluidampr and you will have substantially less chatter from 5000rpm-2000rpm on decelleration.

Also, if you are using 22mm wrist pins, be sure to use upgraded thick-wall tool steel pins, as the standard 0.110"-thick ones will be the weak point in the rotating assembly otherwise. As well, I would recommend using wire locks instead of spiraloks for ease of installation.

Great start!

Slippi84 · 07-03-2009, 10:37 PM

Yeah I have to say I didn't think you had your stuff together this good but you are really on the right track with this thing so far. Not going with a top mount is one of my only regrets with my turbo setup but my IC setup works with a bottom mount and I went with a very good unit so it doesn't looks as sexy as that but it gets the job done.

Also twick is right about the fluidampr is a big help with a twin disk. It's on my list of things to pick up after I heard about premature trans and bearing failure from twin disk and stock balancers.

Tim this is the first I'm hearing about the rings though. Is this not standard on 1400's ?

dsm-onster · 07-03-2009, 10:51 PM

Let me add my BS [/boom sh!t] . . .Since I've not built a 9 second car, I must know nothing like tha adversary to the above gentlemen in this thread, . . . (can I roll eyes here) never the less, . . .

"GT turbos"??????

"GT turbos" work, but your cost for thier service is utterly ridiculous. Please be open minded. There's no need to pay Garrett GT prices for a 9second turbo. The fastest dsm in the entire universe doesn't run a garrett. . . And, with such a handsome t4 twinscroll setup as you're displaying, I suggest FAR from a "garrett yurrbo", as they don't even have the manpower to describle the advantages of true divided runner tech (call them and ask what a twinscroll setup offers. . .)

TSimage · 07-04-2009, 12:16 AM

Nice to see a guy who asked for advice and follows through with it. lol I'll almost feel guilty if the damn thing doesn't run 9s now hahaha!

But that s374 is more than enough, you gotta remember that the s374 is quite a bit larger than the 42r, so comparing them to each other is a bit unfair. Test so far suggest that the s374 will spool sooner and make more power however and at about HALF the price.. The GT42 is a dog without spray, period. You will have your hand full especially running a dual rail setup with a fogger setup. I didn't even know they would build a manifold with that, I have no idea where they'd put it all in relation but either way if its possible I'm sure the JMF guys can get it done.

Its amazing how much those QMs look like the PTT but I guess it makes sense since they are all made originally by the same guys from Devo. I loved mine, night and day from owning a single disc, but they will most certainly get the job done, best part is rebuilds are cheap. I'm not sure if QM offers the same service as PTT but I was able to send them my clutch and they went through the complete thing and had it operating like new when I got it back.

Again great decision on the JMF products as I stated before, for the price they really can't be beat. WessHess was on his way but its a misfortune to what happened to him, RIP. I'm not to keen on the various versions of their manifold that they offer but is this one capable of being used with the stock water pipe, oil filter housing, and radiator?

As far as the ignition box goes, I'm a fan of not mixing brands if need be. I run an AEM EMS so I opted for an AEM ignition unit. Just a thought.

You definitely move fast, so I'll be keeping a close eye on this build in anticipation. I wish I could be as focused as you are on your build but my plate is much too full. Keep up the good work.

Gooberlog · 07-04-2009, 06:21 AM

Yeah you have a fan base now so keep us updated and stay out in the garage. We want see that thing run now. Nice parts so far! Keep your eyes on the classifieds for guys parting out quick cars, they usually take a big hit on pricey parts.

Superman · 07-04-2009, 09:11 PM

Did some more work today (not much). I was hoping to get the engine out today, but that didn't happen (I was working slow today). I had a strange problem with the car today. I tried to move the car back so I can make space for the engine crane, however; it would not move. It has been parked so long the brake pads rusted to the rotors. This thing was really stuck. I had to use my truck to get it to move. I hooked a tow strap to the front of the car (there are no hooks in the back), ran the tow line under the car and to my truck (this is my tow horse). The big 5.3 liter V8 made quick work of talon. Once I got her to move, I jacked her up and put her on jack stands. Now I can get underneath the car to remove the exhaust, axles, etc. Oh by the way I disconnected the AC line (what a surprise). I forgot that it is a high pressure system. I learned very quickly. I also drained the oil and the coolant. I also sprayed all the bolts with liquid wrench to prepare for the tear down.

Superman · 07-04-2009, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicks69

Damn! Looks AWESOME! Good purchases! I really like that 4" downpipe as well! I am assuming that you will be running a remote mounted alternator on the back of the block to make that downpipe fit. If so, look at Jay Racing for the alternator relocation kit. As well, you might want to look at running a Scirocco-style radiator with single or twin puller fans to clear the turbo manfold assembly. As well, you will likely need to run a different main water line. You can run a 16-AN or 20-AN fitting from the water pump to the radiator, and a matching-sized upper radiator line from the thermostat assembly to the radiator.

Great purchases!

As well, if you are going stroker, I would stick away from running Evo3 gears (shep stage 4) as they are a bit short for themph's that you are going to be seeing with either a GT42-sized turbo or the BW S400SX series turbos.

Great purchase on the clutch -- you will like it! I would also recommend running a Fluidampr crank pulley to help reduce the drivetrain harmonics that you will see when using a multi-disk clutch, as it will take its toll on your transmission and your main bearings. The harmonics are greatly reduced when running the Fluidampr and you will have substantially less chatter from 5000rpm-2000rpm on decelleration.

Also, if you are using 22mm wrist pins, be sure to use upgraded thick-wall tool steel pins, as the standard 0.110"-thick ones will be the weak point in the rotating assembly otherwise. As well, I would recommend using wire locks instead of spiraloks for ease of installation.

Great start!

Thanks for the feedback guys. I will look into getting the fluidampr. I thought the stock damper would be fine. Yes, I will be mounting the alt on the other side. I bought Jays kit. I also got the toe eliminator kit.

Superman · 07-04-2009, 09:34 PM

I forgot to mention I got this AEM on sale a while back. I just need the other sensors. I agree with TSimage, I will stay with the AEM ignition.

Slippi84 · 07-05-2009, 12:05 AM

How much stuff do you already have. I feel like when you started this we were giving you advice on what to get or which direction would be a good way to go when you already had your stuff together and were already on a great path. Stop teasing and show us the goods lol

Rob10_99 · 07-05-2009, 12:14 AM

20k build INC...
Nice setup, basically what I would do save for the T4 mani, still very nice setup =D
wow that things high on those jackstands!

TSimage · 07-05-2009, 02:53 AM

I bet this car's already built and he's just effing with us hahaha.

jholmes · 07-05-2009, 05:12 AM

Looks like you have a well constructed plan to work off of so I don't forsee any reason for you not to reach your goals. Keep up the quality work and I'm looking forward to seeing this project completed.

yangtech · 07-05-2009, 06:16 AM

This is going to be an awesome build with quality parts. Can't wait to see it run.

Gooberlog · 07-05-2009, 08:13 AM

Not sure what your $ situation is but all of those parts seem to be top of the line! Your moving quickly on this project which is awesome. Just keep in mind how much the other major stuff will run you or this project will come to a quick stop if you run out of parts cash. I know if this were me my piggy bank would be bone dry by now after looking at some those sweet parts. You got plenty of support on your build as you can see though, any time your not sure of something feel free to ask if you can't figure it out. These guys have probably been where your at. Keep it up your doing great!

Superman · 07-05-2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slippi84

How much stuff do you already have. I feel like when you started this we were giving you advice on what to get or which direction would be a good way to go when you already had your stuff together and were already on a great path. Stop teasing and show us the goods lol

Hey Slippi84, I'm not trying to tease. I had a basic understanding of what I wanted from reading all the previous build threads, including yours. That's how I was able to give you guys an outline of what I wanted. While waiting to start the build, I picked up some things along the way that I knew I would need or wanted in preparation for the build. I picked up gaskets, bushings, some oem replacement parts, things I knew I would need. The exhaust manifolds, rods, clutch, where supposed to be purchased during the build, however; the sales were so good I had to jump even if I wasn't ready. I saved $500 on the JMF T4 alone. I am not totally lost; years of researching DSMs has given me a great deal of knowledge. But it is all head knowledge; I have never built a race car. But I know if you want to go fast you need good parts. So I bought parts that I saw the big guys run.

Superman · 07-05-2009, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob10_99

20k build INC...
Nice setup, basically what I would do save for the T4 mani, still very nice setup =D
wow that things high on those jackstands!

Thanks. I am a big guy so I need all the height I can get to get under there.

Superman · 07-05-2009, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooberlog

Not sure what your $ situation is but all of those parts seem to be top of the line! Your moving quickly on this project which is awesome. Just keep in mind how much the other major stuff will run you or this project will come to a quick stop if you run out of parts cash. I know if this were me my piggy bank would be bone dry by now after looking at some those sweet parts. You got plenty of support on your build as you can see though, any time your not sure of something feel free to ask if you can't figure it out. These guys have probably been where your at. Keep it up your doing great!

Thanks, I am not rich by any standards, and I have seen guys get torn apart coming on this site talking about they want to runs 8s, but only have $5000 dollars. I didn't want to go out like that. I have done my research to know that you have to have a plan and some sort of budget. I didn't want to run 11s, or 10s. I wanted to run as fast as possible. So I planned as best as I could. I am spending more than I originally thought, but it's ok for now. I am trying to get the money up for the big things, turbo, drivetrain, engine, etc. I am also saving a lot by doing the work myself. I have never built a race engine, however; I have assembled engines in school. I understand the tools needed and how to do it. It may not be wise to try building your first engine with expensive parts, but, if I don't, I can't afford other things. Thanks again for the feedback.

Superman · 07-05-2009, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSimage

I bet this car's already built and he's just effing with us hahaha.

Hey man; not at all. I respect you guys for your skills and experience. I did my research before I started so as not to waste your time.

Slippi84 · 07-05-2009, 11:39 AM

Yeah your good man we're just messing with the teasing part and you already having it built. You def did it the right way so far. Research and knowing when to hop on a good deal are two things that will make a HUGE difference when building a fast car without having money coming out your ass lol.

leepen · 07-05-2009, 09:21 PM

Look'in good Superman

Superman · 07-11-2009, 06:32 PM

Ok guys the tear down continues. Today I was able to finish up most of the interior. I got the AC unit, heater core and carpet out. I am going to follow Gooberlog's advice and scrap off the sound deadening stuff and take those wood pieces off the carpet. I also removed the exhaust (those hangers were tough), transfer case, radiator, condenser and some misc parts. Next week I am going to take some very detailed interior shots so you guys can tell me what wiring I can get rid of. Next week I should be able to get the engine out and finish the tear down.

TSimage · 07-11-2009, 06:43 PM

Pictures wont help with wiring.. You have to do a search, find the diagram and trace every single wire that goes to a circuit or item you don't use.

That your you can just buy a racing harness.

Superman · 07-11-2009, 06:51 PM

I also picked up these cool solid aluminum mounts from the classifieds. I only have the timing belt and tranny side mounts so far. I am looking to get the side ones shortly.

Superman · 07-11-2009, 06:53 PM

Also, what do you guys think about those thermal heat coatings for the exhaust system? Does it really make a difference?

Gooberlog · 07-11-2009, 06:54 PM

looking good, getting it down to a shell almost already. How heavy is the heater core and the blower motor boxes in the above picture next to the a/c condensor. Not including the condenssor though, i already have that removed. Wandering if it would be worth it...at some point. Thanks,
Travis

Superman · 07-11-2009, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSimage

Pictures wont help with wiring.. You have to do a search, find the diagram and trace every single wire that goes to a circuit or item you don't use.

That your you can just buy a racing harness.

Thanks. Where can I get a racing harness and how much do thye cost?

Gooberlog · 07-11-2009, 06:56 PM

I was looking at those mounts too! Cause i as well only have the t-belt side and the trans polly mounts in. Others are stock.

JEFFREYCASTGSX · 07-11-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsm-onster

Let me add my BS [/boom sh!t] . . .Since I've not built a 9 second car, I must know nothing like tha adversary to the above gentlemen in this thread, . . . (can I roll eyes here) never the less, . . .

"GT turbos"??????

"GT turbos" work, but your cost for thier service is utterly ridiculous. Please be open minded. There's no need to pay Garrett GT prices for a 9second turbo. The fastest dsm in the entire universe doesn't run a garrett. . . And, with such a handsome t4 twinscroll setup as you're displaying, I suggest FAR from a "garrett yurrbo", as they don't even have the manpower to describle the advantages of true divided runner tech (call them and ask what a twinscroll setup offers. . .)

Might i add that he also has the FASTEST 4-CYLINDER, FASTEST MODIFIED, FASTEST 3/4 CHASSIS CAR IN THE MOTHERFLIPPING WORLD.

Superman · 07-11-2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooberlog

looking good, getting it down to a shell almost already. How heavy is the heater core and the blower motor boxes in the above picture next to the a/c condensor. Not including the condenssor though, i already have that removed. Wandering if it would be worth it...at some point. Thanks,
Travis

They are not extremely heavy. It is mostly plastic.