gstracer – from what the guy was telling me, the OEM AWD hub assembly that includes the bearing won’t bolt up to a FWD rear knuckle. The reason is those four mounting holes (where the hub/bearing bolts to the knuckle) are in different locations (probably really minor differences).
I’m only going off of info that relayed to me over the phone yesterday. A true test / confirmation will be when I attempt my swap in the spring.
IIRC, there's 5 bolts, not 7. Three long ones, and two shorter ones.
MF241319 should be two, not four.
But, then again, I haven't even touched a t-case in 8+ months, and my memory sucks.
Would it be possible to swap an AWD wheel bearing into a FWD rear knuckle?
Ya Paul, I could only find spots for 5 bolts like you say, 3 long & 2 short. When I pulled the T case off Marks (Peepers) doner, 5 bolts
I can understand that CAPS may show more then is required (shown in the req qty. section), as if that bolt is required elsewhere, it will be included in that qty. I just figured this was the case till I saw the DSMGraveyard Vendor post & they are selling a kit with 7 bolts as well
I'd rather not count how many times I have pulled tranfercases this year between my 1g and 2g. I'm 100% positive they both have 5 bolts. 3 long, 2 short.
I finally got around to pulling the subframe bolts from my donor car and found this
these are the rear bolts
This car took one hell of a hit in the back passenger side rear. This could be a body shops attempt to repair a broken bolt....weld another to it.
It almost looks like the one bolt is the shorter FWD bolt and someone had welded another onto it so it could be used for the AWD bolt. This has me baffled... could this be a manufaturer fix? There is no evidence what so ever of that sheet metal being cut and welded back down or the bolt support that keeps that bolt from spinning.......????????....
Hey guys,
I was talking with one of the DSM scrap yards looking for a driver's side rear knuckle (my AWD donor’s was wrecked in an accident). I was explaining to him what I was doing (AWD Spyder Swap) and he told me that I can still use my FWD knuckle, just need to remove the FWD hub/bearing assembly and install new AWD hub/bearing assemblies. In theory this might make sense, as long as the knuckles are the same? But according to CAPs they share different part numbers which is leading me to believe they are indeed different.
I’ll also share some photos I took of removing the AWD subframe bolts in case anyone's interested??
From my observation, the scrap yard dealer is correct. The knuckle is the same just the spindle is different and easily changed. Further the control arms appear to the same so should also be interchangeable as well as anything brakes related.
Pick the best parts when doing your conversion and use them.
gorf,
At first glace they look interchangeable but it's been confirmed that they're not.
The openings where the wheel bearing goes thru are different diameters (FWD vs AWD) and the four mounting holes for the hub assembly are also slightly different.
Ya Paul, I could only find spots for 5 bolts like you say, 3 long & 2 short. When I pulled the T case off Marks (Peepers) doner, 5 bolts
I can understand that CAPS may show more then is required (shown in the req qty. section), as if that bolt is required elsewhere, it will be included in that qty. I just figured this was the case till I saw the DSMGraveyard Vendor post & they are selling a kit with 7 bolts as well
Yep that is exactly it, We built the bolt kit from caps. They show 3 long, and 4 short when you choose them for some reason.
We will get on that ASAP. I guess that means the kit price will go down a bit too.
For anyone who is doing the swap and found that their top bolt is seized in the knuckle bushing, You DO NOT have to replace the knuckle to get the new bushings. Mitsu will tell you this as well as many others, just shoot for the polyuranthane bushings. You just have to remove the knuckle, press them out, and press the new poly bushings in place. I couldnt find a kit on any website but I did find a seller on Ebay that carries them ZPartshouse. Currently the seller has the bushings for ONLY the top of the knuckle where it bolts to the upper control arm for about $40 and also has a rear bushing kit that supplies these bushings as well for around $100
Also, The FWD knuckles will NOT work on the AWD, the holes for the wheel bearing assembly differ greatly.
EDIT: thanks to daren p I found the kit on Extremepsi. It included the 2 trailing arm bushings (each side) all 3 knuckle bushings for each side and 2 upper control arm bushings for each side for $67 Rear bushing kit found here
Last edited by assault187; 02-23-2009 at 11:19 PM.
For anyone who is doing the swap and found that their top bolt is seized in the knuckle bushing, You DO NOT have to replace the knuckle to get the new bushings. Mitsu will tell you this as well as many others, just shoot for the polyuranthane bushings. You just have to remove the knuckle, press them out, and press the new poly bushings in place. I couldnt find a kit on any website but I did find a seller on Ebay that carries them ZPartshouse. Currently the seller has the bushings for ONLY the top of the knuckle where it bolts to the upper control arm for about $40 and also has a rear bushing kit that supplies these bushings as well for around $100
Also, The FWD knuckles will NOT work on the AWD, the holes for the wheel bearing assembly differ greatly.
Just to confirm, your talking about the upper knuckle bushings that connect it to the upper control arm? If so the complete ES kit has these bushings & goes for $125 from extremepsi. I already bought this kit for my car & replaced all the fwd bushings, now that I'm swapping to awd I got new suspension pieces & didn't want to bother removing the ES bushings from the rear fwd components, so ES also makes a kit thats just all the rear bushings (knuckles, upper control arm, trailing arm) & it goes for like $67 from extremepsi.
I started my swap this past weekend. Pulled the rear suspension & dropped the rear subframe. Removed all the interior from the back seat back. Transfered the parking brake components from the fwd backing plates to the awds (the parking break shoes have a different part # from fwd & awd but from what I can tell the appear to be the exact same). The levers are different on each model & while I bought new awd parking break cables, it appears the fwd ones can be used (difference is one mount on the cables). Also removed part of the front suspension & axles.
I'm just waiting on my V3 ECMLink chip to give the car a test run with it, then I'll drop the gas tank & exhaust in the next couple days. After that the weathers supposed to turn cold again, so I'll probably be taking a break from garage work for awhile
All the doner parts are coming together, most were rust free Cali parts but I'm still re-doing them. Some are being powder coated while others are getting a special rust barrier (rust bullet, extremely durable) & then coated with a chassis coating. Transfercase is back from Jacks, after a complete rebuild. Rear diff is all disassembled & cleaned up ready for a rebuild. So its coming together. Goal is to have it running by May 1st, so we'll see.....
I removed the 2 fwd fuel tank brackets tonight & gave the awd tank a quick test fit. Have a couple things I want to confirm. Looks like the fwd exhaust hanger on the drivers side that sits about mid tank doesn't cause a clearance issue? (was just going to leave it installed). It looks like the one fwd fuel tank mount bolt on the passenger side (the one towards the front of the car, not the rear one with large bracket thats already removed) is going to cause clearance issues? Didn't see this mentioned anywhere, so did I just have the tank sitting to high & this isn't an issue or are people just taking the cut off wheel to the bolt & didn't mention it?
Lastly on the awd straps, the back portion has a curved up piece of metal. It looks like people are leaving this intact & adding a nut to the tank mounting bolt, which both secures the bolt & gives the clearance needed for this loop? I haven't seen the awd fuel tank strap setup on an actual awd car which is why I was first wondering if adding a nut to hold the strap mounting bolts in place would make the tank sit lower then in the factory awd car (leaving the tank to have some play) but it appears the awd must have had some kind of different system (atleast at the back of the straps) where the straps were attached? So by adding the nuts, the tank will actually end up in the same position as it sits in a factory awd car?
the only exhaust hanger I removed was the one in front of the tank where the rear carrier bearing bracket gets welded. I had no clearance issue with the other one that sits next to the tank installed and in tact. As for the loops on the straps and the nuts, I threw a nut on each of the 4 bolts to keep the bolts from moving or spinning and retained the loops on the straps. When I bolted the tank up it was super snug so there is absolutly no play with the gas tank and no clearance issues.
Question for somone with the completed project: The swap is finished but I removed the knuckles to replace the bushings (PITA!) when I reassemled the knuckes and installed them on the car it seemed as if there was no place to mount the e-brake cables..... I used the AWD cables with the AWD knuckes and all but the brackets dont seem to have a home near by. Could the brackets have simply moved out of place? I didnt look into it any further after I broke my pinky finger somhow installing the knuckles, but if anyone has a pic it would help.
the only exhaust hanger I removed was the one in front of the tank where the rear carrier bearing bracket gets welded. I had no clearance issue with the other one that sits next to the tank installed and in tact. As for the loops on the straps and the nuts, I threw a nut on each of the 4 bolts to keep the bolts from moving or spinning and retained the loops on the straps. When I bolted the tank up it was super snug so there is absolutly no play with the gas tank and no clearance issues.
Thanks for the confirm, thats exactly what I was thinking. The only other part in question is the second fwd tank mounting bolt thats on the passenger side (the front one at the side). I've removed the two large bracketed bolts but this bolt also seems to be a clearance issue?
Quote:
Originally Posted by assault187
Question for somone with the completed project: The swap is finished but I removed the knuckles to replace the bushings (PITA!) when I reassemled the knuckes and installed them on the car it seemed as if there was no place to mount the e-brake cables..... I used the AWD cables with the AWD knuckes and all but the brackets dont seem to have a home near by. Could the brackets have simply moved out of place? I didnt look into it any further after I broke my pinky finger somhow installing the knuckles, but if anyone has a pic it would help.
I have both the fwd & new awd parking break cables. They are basically the same except one mount is different on each cable. Where they attach at the trailing arm front mount is in a different location between the two. I'm not sure if the bracket on the trailing arm mount is the same between fwd & awd & it can be relocated or if the brackets themselves are different.
Thanks for the confirm, thats exactly what I was thinking. The only other part in question is the second fwd tank mounting bolt thats on the passenger side (the front one at the side). I've removed the two large bracketed bolts but this bolt also seems to be a clearance issue?
Are you talking about one of the two bolts for the mounting of the FWD gas tank that facing the front of the car just a couple inches away from the exhaust/driveshaft tunnel? If so, I left those in there too with no clearance issue. The only things I removed were were the gas tank bracket towards the rear of the car, the braket mid tank on the passenger side of the car, cut the old fwd bolts (spyder) and i removed the old exhaust hanger from the very end of the tunnel closest to the tank. hope this helps
Are you talking about one of the two bolts for the mounting of the FWD gas tank that facing the front of the car just a couple inches away from the exhaust/driveshaft tunnel? If so, I left those in there too with no clearance issue. The only things I removed were were the gas tank bracket towards the rear of the car, the braket mid tank on the passenger side of the car, cut the old fwd bolts (spyder) and i removed the old exhaust hanger from the very end of the tunnel closest to the tank. hope this helps
No, not the two bolts at the front closest to the tunnel. There's 5 bolts/mounts (well atleast there is on my car). So its the only one that you didn't mention in your post . Guess shoulda though of this before, but a pic probably helps.
So you can see (circled in red) its the forward mount on the passenger side. With my test fit the tank was hitting the bolt before the tank appeared to be all the way up but I've never heard it mentioned before & you just confirmed you didn't cut this bolt of either, so more then likely I didn't have the tank in the correct position 100% (as it was just sitting on a jack). Its hard to tell from the pic but that isn't the passenger side mount that is one of the two tank mounts that are always talked about to remove (they have already both been removed)
Quick question.... FWD parking brake cables OR awd parking brake cables are used with the swap? The AWD cable brackets dont match up to the mounting holes on the car....
I used the AWD cables on mine. I can't remember if I had to get creative with the mounting brackets or not, though. I just wanted to avoid disconnecting the cable inside of the hub.
____________________________
-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
As far as e-brake cables, is anyone using the fwd cables on theirs? My donor car got hit on the driver's side and the seat is pushed over the console to where I won't be able to access the cable to get them out. I wanna use the fwd cables and just disconnect them at the hubs to make my life easier if possible. Any input? I'd definitely appreciate it cause I have to figure something out very soon.
As far as e-brake cables, is anyone using the fwd cables on theirs? My donor car got hit on the driver's side and the seat is pushed over the console to where I won't be able to access the cable to get them out. I wanna use the fwd cables and just disconnect them at the hubs to make my life easier if possible. Any input? I'd definitely appreciate it cause I have to figure something out very soon.
Oh yeah, and this is a 2g of course.
I dont' see why they would be different? I'm doing teh swap now and going to be using fwd cables, i disconnected them from teh hub of course, wasn't to bad.
The cables look the exact same except for one bracket but I haven't compared them side to side (I'll try to do it when I get a chance). I know the levers that pull the parking brake assembly are different between fwd & awd & think the ends where the cables attach are slightly different between the two but I'm think you can still make the fwd cables work.
I just bought new awd cables to be on the safe side (think they were just over $30 a piece from Mitsuparts) but if I get a chance this weekend I'll compare the two.
I compared the awd & fwd cables & it looks like the awd cables are about 1" or so longer vs the fwd cables. So you can probably make them work but may not fit right with the factory mounts.
the AWD cable on the driver side for mine was a few inches longer then the fwd one. I used the FWD cable on the passenger side so I could use the previous mounting locations and just made the driver side AWD cable work with different mounting
Great thread, I wish I'd read it before starting on my project. I have one other tidbit for those of you who for one reason or another cannot use the AWD subframe bolts. I picked up a pair of grade 8 6"x1/2" bolts at the hardware store for $5 each with washers and nuts. They fit great and saved the trouble of cutting up the AWD donor to get at the factory bolts.
Incidentally, most if this thread also applies to converting a 7g (94-98) Galant to AWD if anyone else feels like trying it.
____________________________
Nick - AWD turbo swapped USDM 7g Galant
Thanks again! I ended up cutting them flush and then tack welding the ends in place.
I have a question regarding the fuel tank wiring. I just did it last night, and I made this diagram of how I did mine. Can someone verify that this is correct before I soder the connections? Please let me know if I did it correct or incorrect. Thanks in advance.
I was going to wire this up today and noticed my 97 spyder wiring differs from the diagram here. The diagram lists a 2 pin and a 3 pin FWD connectors, My car has the 2 pin (black & black/blue wires) and a 8 pin connector utilizing 7 pins. Do I only use the 3 listed wire colors in the 8 pin connector? I also have 2 yellow/blue wires in said connector, one is thicker...which do I use to match the listed diagram.
Any idea what the functions of these other wires are? I read through this whole thread for searching sake but didnt come across this....Although I did read somthing about a purge selenoid...
Hey guys, I am almost complete with my awd swap as well. The rear end is done and the tranny/transfercase is bolted on and ready to go. My question is concerning the axle carrier bearing bolts. I see where the carrier bearing bolts up but does anyone know what thread pitch the bolts are or how long it is? My ac bracket is still there but I have previously removed the ac compressor.
Edit: If anyone is interested the thread pitch is m10x1.25 and I used at 40mm bolt.
Last edited by Gstclipse69; 04-13-2009 at 06:16 PM.
I was going to wire this up today and noticed my 97 spyder wiring differs from the diagram here. The diagram lists a 2 pin and a 3 pin FWD connectors, My car has the 2 pin (black & black/blue wires) and a 8 pin connector utilizing 7 pins. Do I only use the 3 listed wire colors in the 8 pin connector? I also have 2 yellow/blue wires in said connector, one is thicker...which do I use to match the listed diagram.
Any idea what the functions of these other wires are? I read through this whole thread for searching sake but didnt come across this....Although I did read somthing about a purge selenoid...
Did you figure this out? I just did my re-wire & didn't run into any issues. Your probably talking about the main harness connector? You don't need to worry about all the additional wires (leave connected as is, if you want to keep them functioning), their for ABS & possibly a pressure sensor. I left the large connector & just tapped into the required wires further down the line. I used Pauls drawing & had the factory wiring diagrams to compare & his drawing appears to be correct as far as I can tell.
Oh & I also had to remove the second fwd fuel tank bracket thats along the passenger side (removed 3 brackets alltogether). I didn't completely remove it with the spot welds, just cut it off at the portion that drops down so where the tank rests on it is basically flush with the rest of the bottom of the car. I'm not sure how other got away without removing this, as it defently held the tank out from being seated in properly.
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