Grrrrrrrr... your pics confirmed what I suspected. I welded mine in OVER the hump in the opening, not in front of it.
Heh, I was wondering if anyone had done that. When I first held the bracket up in place I was scratching my head trying to figure out why it wouldn't lay flush against the chassis. I just hope you're able to cut it out and re-weld it without having to drop everything again. Good luck.
____________________________
-Don
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So.....What would it cost me to have you come to Pennsylvania and do the swap for me??? My buddy owns a garage and I would probably be able to get a couple days of lift time.
I'm open to offers.
____________________________
-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
I used your diagram and my gauge works. The only thing is that the gauge reads a little over half full when in reality the tank is completely full but I do not think that has anything to do with how the wires are connected. That seems like more of a sender unit problem . Everything else is working great so a small detail like this doesn't bother me
By the way, AWD is awesome! I will never own another fwd dsm again
This is EXACTLY what my problem is. However, the gauge stays on empty for a long time before the fuel light comes on.
It's a big deal to my wife and therefore to me. She wants the ultimate Eclipse. So thats what I'm building... Gotta iron out those flaws!
AWD owns me. I admit it. I was going to buy a G35 Coupe... but now I'm going to go ahead and save for the GTR.
This is EXACTLY what my problem is. However, the gauge stays on empty for a long time before the fuel light comes on.
It's a big deal to my wife and therefore to me. She wants the ultimate Eclipse. So thats what I'm building... Gotta iron out those flaws!
AWD owns me. I admit it. I was going to buy a G35 Coupe... but now I'm going to go ahead and save for the GTR.
so it can't no longer be the ultimate eclipse because the fuel gauge doesn't work perfectly? There are people who havent even touched the fuel wiring and their gauges stopped working completely. Again, I think the problem we're having has something to do with the sender units and not the wiring.
Well, I finally got the rear subframe bolts swapped out. Sharkcus, do you by chance have a picture of your cuts that you made to drop in the front bolts? I'm trying to figure out where the best place to cut will be-- from what I can tell there are a couple layers of metal in that region, which will probably give my Dremel a hell of a workout.
On a side note, it's not necessary to drill access holes to drop in the bolts for the AWD fuel tank mounts (for the rears, at least). I was able to get them in place by feeding them through a larger adjacent hole and drawing them down through the appropriate hole with a telescoping magnet. Just make sure to include a washer on either side of the sheet metal, and tightening the nut down is a cinch.
So.....What would it cost me to have you come to Pennsylvania and do the swap for me??? My buddy owns a garage and I would probably be able to get a couple days of lift time.
I was thinking the same thing!!!!
But I was hoping to trade some vaction time at a nice lake house for his labor....
Just thought I'd share some pics of the little gadgets I made today. I didn't like the idea of dropping the front subframe bolts on the sheet metal either, and because I had to go in from the side, there wasn't a chance in hell I'd be able to weld a plate down over the hole. These little guys ended up being a perfect fit-- they don't rotate at all in the frame, and the recessed area in the middle holds the square head rather nicely. Not bad for eyeballing it. I got some time on the mill before I had a chance to take measurements, so I winged it. Now I just need to prime and paint them and get hot bolting stuff up.
I started stripping my donor car this past w/e and since the car has been sitting for awhile, there is a lot of surface rust and some bolts frozen on.
So here is my questions:
Front end - can I use all of my FWD front end and suspension except for the axles?
I do plan on Using the front brakes even if I have to buy rebuilt calipers.
Rear end - are the brakes and calipers the same on the rear the same for the AWD as on the FWD? Are there any other parts that are interchangeable on the back with the FWD suspension parts?
I started stripping my donor car this past w/e and since the car has been sitting for awhile, there is a lot of surface rust and some bolts frozen on.
So here is my questions:
Front end - can I use all of my FWD front end and suspension except for the axles?
I do plan on Using the front brakes even if I have to buy rebuilt calipers.
Rear end - are the brakes and calipers the same on the rear the same for the AWD as on the FWD? Are there any other parts that are interchangeable on the back with the FWD suspension parts?
Yes, the only parts you must replace are the axles. I doubt the calipers will be expensive, especially if you have the cores.
As far as the back goes, it's all pretty much the same. The knuckle is different (duh) and the sway bar. The brakes, control arm's, and such are all the same. The shocks are basically the same, jut a slight difference in the valving and spring rates... nothing 99% of us will notice.
Thanks, man. I actually had to grind a little more material off the back side of them so that the bolts dropped down vertically, but they've still been a real lifesaver. I just tried to tighten down a front bolt without one, and let's just say it wasn't happening.
For anyone else interested in doing the same, I used a 0.25" thick plate of some kind of medium hard steel (it was scrap, maybe 4340?), drilled a 0.5" hole for the bolt, and programmed a 1.2 X 1.2 X 0.080" rectangular pocket over the hole using a 3/8" bit. I'd have to check on the outer dimensions, because those are the ones I guessed at.
has anyone figured out the problem with the fuel guage? i used the diagram drawn in this thread, and my fuel guage doesnt work, but my low level light does.
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FP3052 (27psi) and AWD
Using my diagram, it seems that a full tank of gas reads as a half tank, and anything less that half of a tank, reads flat on the bottom of the gauge. I can't figure it out.
____________________________
-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
well mine was empty and it read 1/4 tank lol. i only put in few gallons and it still didnt change. ill try to put in more and see if it changes, but im fine with relying on the light. thats usually when i refill anyway.
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FP3052 (27psi) and AWD
After reviewing the factory wiring diagrams for the fuel level sending units and the resistance specifications for the FWD and AWD units, I believe I can provide some insight to the problems most have been experiencing with the rewire.
If the majority of folks are experiencing a half-tank reading when the tank is actually full, I can only conclude that one thing is wrong: one of the senders is stuck in the empty position. I've reached this conclusion by ruling out all other viable possibilities, but of course there's a chance I'm missing something.
First of all, the FWD uses a single sending unit whose resistance varies from 112 ohms when empty to 4 ohms when full. The AWD uses two units IN SERIES, with resistances that vary from 56.9 or 50 ohms when empty to 2 ohms when full. The result of combining the two near identical resistances is equivalent to the single resistance of the FWD unit. Hence, the problem cannot lie with the power supply voltage.
Furthermore, the wiring has to be correct if readings of both empty AND half a tank are obtained. Because the units are in series and because the resistance varies inversely with fuel level between two finite values, it is not possible to achieve both of these readings with just one sending unit. It would be possible, however, to obtain readings varying from half to full with one unit, but that's not the problem here.
An open and a short across either sender can both be ruled out for the same reasons above: an open would result in a gage that always read empty, and a short would result in levels ranging from half to full.
If anyone can spot a flaw in my logic or a possible wiring problem, please let me know. But I think I've at least convinced myself that the problems are predominantly mechanical.
EDIT: For the guys getting a reading of half a tank when it's actually full, it would probably be prudent to do a resistance check on the sending units before cracking open the fuel tank and getting gas in your face.
____________________________
-Don
Last edited by donmagicjuan; 06-26-2007 at 07:31 AM.
i talked to a guy who has done the swap twice, he said he figured out what you need to do. he said there was a wire that need to be jumped. i forget why it needs to be, but thats what needs to be done, he told me he will look at the wiring this week and tell me which wires need to be where.
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FP3052 (27psi) and AWD
Beside the center driveshaft carriers is there any hardware type items that I need to make sure to remove?
Forgot to mention this a while ago, but I ended up swapping the fuel filler neck and hose from the AWD because my FWD one was about an inch or two longer. I'm not sure if the FWD one would've worked or not, but it was only a few bolts and about 10 minutes to switch everything out without worrying about it. I'm curious now if anyone has used the FWD neck without any problems.
Interesting. Funny no one ever brought that up before. I guess everyone just dismisses it because it's so simple, but it'd be good to add it to your list if you're about to take on the project.
Now that you mention it, I'm not positive which one was longer. I thought it was the FWD, but either way I swapped it out.
Well, there's officially one more AWD Spyder lurking the streets. I've just got a loose end or two to tie up yet before it's ready for what the little Evo3 can throw at it. That crossmember in the back is going to be the death of me.
I did observe a properly functioning fuel gage, though, in strict accordance with Paul's wiring diagram. I filled it up today and the gage went straight to full from dead empty. I really think the half tank problem is a result of a sticking float as I mentioned earlier. Were any of you guys able to fix this yet?
P.S. It's nice to finally have a first gear that actually does something.
Nice work, Don.
I have yet to even attempt to fix my fuel level problem. My car is packed tight in the corner of the third bay of my garage awaiting a new engine. Sometime in August, I'll pull her back out and see about that sticking float. I'll report back with my findings.
____________________________
-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
I followed the automotiveforums.com post for the swap and everything is grand except that my fuel gauge doesn't have the resolution the stock one did. It goes to full when its full but I can drive like 30 miles and it drops to 3/4 tank and then I can drive like 100 miles and it drops to 1/2 then I'll drive like 30 miles and it drops to 1/4 and then it goes down slowly until it bottoms out and I still have about another 80 miles left in the tank before I have to refill. These are just estimates of where the gauge drops but I usually get about 340 miles a tank.
I love the AWD. Slinging my car around corners is fun now
If anyone has any questions they need answered feel free to PM me, if you can't get any answers anywhere else. I just rarely check the forums but I get an email when I get PM'd. Peace.
my gas guage will read perfectly above 1/4 tank, but when the level drops below 1/4 tank, it stops there and i just have to wait for the gas light to come on. kinda weird
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FP3052 (27psi) and AWD
That sounds like a different type of problem. The wonderful thing about potentiometers is that they're notorious for drifting away from their nominal values over time. I would bet that one or both of your sending units is still varying resistance as it should, but the values have shifted down from the manufacturer's spec. You can do a disconnected resistance check across each of the senders with the tank full and empty, and that should identify the culprit(s).
OK so I got my donor completely stripped and understand how this stuff all goes back together.
My problem: The whole rear carrier assembly is a rusted POS. I thought it was all surface rust and could be dealt with easily - I was wrong. The bolts that go through the rubber grommets are rust welded to the inner sleeve. The only option that I see is to cut the bolts and sleeves off and replace with new bolts and a prothane kit. Can I buy a complete bolt kit for the rear end? Where?
Option number two - anyone know where I can pick up a complete 2g rear carrier assembly in good shape?
OK so I got my donor completely stripped and understand how this stuff all goes back together.
My problem: The whole rear carrier assembly is a rusted POS. I thought it was all surface rust and could be dealt with easily - I was wrong. The bolts that go through the rubber grommets are rust welded to the inner sleeve. The only option that I see is to cut the bolts and sleeves off and replace with new bolts and a prothane kit. Can I buy a complete bolt kit for the rear end? Where?
Option number two - anyone know where I can pick up a complete 2g rear carrier assembly in good shape?
Don't go with the prothane. I know a guy who did that and now has to find the metal sleeves for the bushings which is near impossible. Most of the time when they come out they are torn to pieces.
![AWD Conversion/Swap Guys Enter Here - Advanced. [Merged 2-07]](/forums/iconimages/drivetrain-tech/awd-conversion-swap-guys-enter-here-advanced-merged-2-07-a_ltr.gif)
. Everything else is working great so a small detail like this doesn't bother me 
I was thinking the same thing!!!! 
