With VCE, is welded center diff needed?

[tim_korn_99]

i'm building another DSM i bought into a strict rally type racer, and maybe a few visits to the drag strip. Here's the deal... I've read about the VCE on here, and i've also read about a welded center diff, BUT, there's not much on both of them together. Now, do i need a welded center diff or a spool if i have a VCE? Or, will just a VCE give me a locked 50/50 power split?

 

[tim_korn_99]

anyone?? will JUST a VCE work? Or will i need a spool also? Or maybe, just a spool?

 

[4pistons]

Either a VCE or a welded center diff effectively locks the front and rear output shafts together like a spool. You don't need both. A VCE has the advantage of being relatively easy to remove and undo whereas a welded diff is permanent. You can install/remove it by removing the end cover with the trans in the car.

To weld a center diff the trans must come out and be disassembled. On the other hand a VCE can't eliminate the dreaded thrust washer failure like a welded diff can. (My method anyway)

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[OWGTI]

Well, you can swap a center diff spool or welded diff into a car with the tranny in. I have done it a few times and it is not too bad. See the VFAQ on center diff removal. I would be hesitant to use a VCE in daily driving as I feel it would stress the center diff components too much. They work fine in dynoing however. If someone HAS ran with a VCE in their daily driver for a long time, please speak up.

Later
Arnie

 

[4pistons]

I feel it would stress the center diff components too much

A welded center diff or VCE stresses the components LESS since they both bypass the components operation. When welding a center diff I remove all the spider gears and thrust washers. The only thing left to transmit power is the case itself, which sends power to the front wheels, and the output shaft, which sends power to the X-fer case.

A VCE does essentially the same thing but leaves the parts in the center diff. But none of the parts are transmitting any power so they are LESS stressed.

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[Goobdog]

When I launch at the track or on the street my front tires spin pretty good, Will a VCE help with this problem ?

 

[4pistons]

It might. If they are spinning due to a worn out VC and the power is being disributed unevenly, then yes it will help. If you have a good VC but crappy tires, mushy suspension and the weight is tranferring off your front tires and causes spinning then no, it won't help.

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[Goobdog]

It might. If they are spinning due to a worn out VC and the power is being disributed unevenly, then yes it will help. If you have a good VC but crappy tires, mushy suspension and the weight is tranferring off your front tires and causes spinning then no, it won't help.

Rick - '91 GSX

That sounds more like my problem. Thanks

 

[OWGTI]

A welded center diff or VCE stresses the components LESS since they both bypass the components operation. When welding a center diff I remove all the spider gears and thrust washers. The only thing left to transmit power is the case itself, which sends power to the front wheels, and the output shaft, which sends power to the X-fer case.

A VCE does essentially the same thing but leaves the parts in the center diff. But none of the parts are transmitting any power so they are LESS stressed.

Rick - '91 GSX

Thats not completely right. A welded center diff or TRE center diff spool (much superior to a welded diff or VCE) works by locking either a gear (welded) or a spool against the case. The spool or gear drives both the output shaft to the transfer case via the end closest to the VC (either a gear welded on to the "cover" part of the center diff or the small splined end of the spool) and the hollow output shaft to the front diff that goes over the output shaft to the transfer case via the gear welded into the large part of the center diff or the large splined end of the spool. This takes the gears in the center diff completely out of the equation other than to provide their splines (in a welded diff).

The whole problem with a VCE and why I do not feel it would be suitable for long term, 50k mile street use is that it still relies on the weak stock gears inside a center diff to lock the front and rear wheels together. As all a VCE does is lock the parts of the stock diff together, the teeth would still be able to fail in the same way they always do, by chipping or cracking off, not by ripping out splines the way a welded center diff or spooled diff would have to fail. I hope that helps you understand how a DSM center diff works a little better. Again,. if someone could say "ive had one in my car for 50k miles at 400HP" I would gladly eat my words.

Later
Arnie

 

[megadan]

Just to make that clear (at least for me), when the center diff is welded, does the spider gear and the gear (welded) need to be there? I'm asking that because I want to lock 50/50 but my gear are all eaten up.

 

[4pistons]

An explanation and diagram here:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173481

Rick - '91 GSX

 

[GVR4592]

The vce probably isn't going to be strong enough for any type of racing . It's mainly used as a way to convert awd cars to fwd or rwd for dyno purposes.