Hmm, so I looked through those pics Phil. I do like the positioning of the body and weight transfer on launch. She looks like she is sitting very well. I would like to see some pics of the back end too. So we can see the tire squat.
MB
Cool....looks pretty nice......he didn't get any shots from the back at this outing, he got one from July from the back/side that I actually ordered...it's during my launch, but, because of the 15 psi pressure I started of with, there's really no wrinkle at all....
....did you end up getting the vid of my last run??? Talked to Doug and he should be posting the vids on CCDSM and youtube soon......
____________________________
60' 1.48
ET 11.49
MPH 116.85
14b power!
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VP C16 117 Octane. I have JIC coilovers in there Trav........
Good to know, thanks.
I was planning on running Eibach springs again with KYB AGX's but seeing those 60' times makes me want to run some slicks at some point, so i'll have to consider some coil overs. Also with the weight out or my car, and more to come, i don't think even with some sportline springs on my car that it will sit low enough. How it is now on the stock suspension it looks like i have the engine out of the car.
____________________________
Personal Best:
12.00 on 16G
12.42 @ 113 on 14b
I was planning on running Eibach springs again with KYB AGX's but seeing those 60' times makes me want to run some slicks at some point, so i'll have to consider some coil overs. Also with the weight out or my car, and more to come, i don't think even with some sportline springs on my car that it will sit low enough. How it is now on the stock suspension it looks like i have the engine out of the car.
Ha! I hear you there......but, you don't have to run coilovers to run the slicks. As much as the fully tucked launch looks killer, all that up and down motion on the launch and 1-2 isn't healthy for the drivetrain.
When I took my Eibach's off the talon it was sitting about 1 inch higher than stock because of all the weight I took out. After the JIC's went in, the car was so light, and the suspension so stiff, I just blew the tires of it in 1st and second gears, even got some front tire spin when hitting 3rd. I had no choice but to do slicks, or I would have had to pull the JIC's out.....NO WAY!
Every combo is a bit different and can produce great short times. But, with mine, it's the way I had to go.
____________________________
60' 1.48
ET 11.49
MPH 116.85
14b power!
Yeah i'm not looking to squat on the launch and blow out my t-case or something, but i thought that coil overs were needed to clear slicks. Will a pro kit or sport lines fit slicks, cause that's what i was planning on running initially.
____________________________
Personal Best:
12.00 on 16G
12.42 @ 113 on 14b
Yeah i'm not looking to squat on the launch and blow out my t-case or something, but i thought that coil overs were needed to clear slicks. Will a pro kit or sport lines fit slicks, cause that's what i was planning on running initially.
Ahhh, now I see what you mean......I would think the 24.5's I run would clear, but, I will have to get an idea next time I'm outside with the car, standby on that....
____________________________
60' 1.48
ET 11.49
MPH 116.85
14b power!
Yeah I was plannig on maybe some sport lines and agx's. If i can run that set up and put on slicks down the road that would be cool. Would that size slick fit on my RX-7 wheels 16X8?
I've also been looking into the rear sub frame and mustache bushings as well as some toe eliminators. What else can i look into for suspension upgrades for drag racing with street compatibility?
I have a lot of wish list parts and not much cash. I have no idea what I'm going to do about the engine's low compression. I wanted to build the bottom end so it will support the HX-35 turbo i've been looking at. But since money is tight, maybe i should change my plans and run the 14b for a while longer. Maybe i should plan to re-ring the block, new bearings and gaskets, head studs and put it back in. Then work on the suspension etc. I really want to find a carbon fiber hood to drop some weight. But i'm looking to get DSMlink before all of that. They have been talking about releasing the DSMlink Lite package for a while now but talk is it should be out around early next year. So i may wait on it since it's a lot cheaper w/ everything i need.
____________________________
Personal Best:
12.00 on 16G
12.42 @ 113 on 14b
Your stock 6bolt can handle the hx35 just fine. It's done 600whp on many occasions. And can handle 500whp all day long. If you wan't more power than what the 6bolt can handle, then you need to look at bigger turbos than the fp3052 and the bolton hx35 and the bolton s256.
____________________________
Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
Your stock 6bolt can handle the hx35 just fine. It's done 600whp on many occasions. And can handle 500whp all day long. If you wan't more power than what the 6bolt can handle, then you need to look at bigger turbos than the fp3052 and the bolton hx35 and the bolton s256.
So you think with just a refresh and some head studs and a mitsu multi layer head gasket my stock 6bolt will be just fine? From what i've been reading the HX-35 with a bolt on BEP housing should run around 450ish awhp on pump 93 octane and in the neighborhood of low 500's to the wheels on race gas/alcohol/methanol. If you think the stock bottom end with a rebuild and a decent tune on link will handle it, then i'll just go that route.
I'm only looking for 500awhp at the max. I'd like to have somewhere in the 400's to the wheels on pump gas. With some more weight out the car and good driving: 450 whp @ 2900lbs race weight = 10.8 with some good driving.
So 450 to the wheels, another 100 pounds out of the car and some good driving and it should be a high ten low 11 sec pass, which is right where i want the car over all.
____________________________
Personal Best:
12.00 on 16G
12.42 @ 113 on 14b
So you think with just a refresh and some head studs and a mitsu multi layer head gasket my stock 6bolt will be just fine? From what i've been reading the HX-35 with a bolt on BEP housing should run around 450ish awhp on pump 93 octane and in the neighborhood of low 500's to the wheels on race gas/alcohol/methanol. If you think the stock bottom end with a rebuild and a decent tune on link will handle it, then i'll just go that route.
I'm only looking for 500awhp at the max. I'd like to have somewhere in the 400's to the wheels on pump gas. With some more weight out the car and good driving: 450 whp @ 2900lbs race weight = 10.8 with some good driving.
So 450 to the wheels, another 100 pounds out of the car and some good driving and it should be a high ten low 11 sec pass, which is right where i want the car over all.
10's would be nice.......that will be my final goal most likely......just wondering if I'll need a 16G variant to get there. I just don't know that I can somehow reduce ET another .50 to give me a 10.99. I'm definitely trying to work out a strategy to see what I can do. It's got to be lighter if possible. And more power is definitely needed. I most likely really can't get the car out of the hole any better.....maybe low 1.4's but that most likely will not net me much at all on the other end of the track. So, I've got a tough task now. Depending on what I'm able to pull together for next year, the initial goal is to run better than the 11.49 and maybe edge Nate's 11.44. That's probably the most I can ask for at this early stage. I think 2 tenths would be an accomplishment next year, so 11.29.........................
What do you guys think?
____________________________
60' 1.48
ET 11.49
MPH 116.85
14b power!
I like those goals Phil, to me set your goals as reasonable and build upon that. I think with the cams, a better fmic option, perhaps an extrude honed manifold or similar, and a little more weight loss you should be able to hit those goals without too much issue. Have you compression tested lately? How healthy is that old beast of a motor? Might be something to think about too, obviously you want everything top notch to perform at it's best. Do you or anyone know how much Joe Bucci's car weighed? I can't honestly see it being more then 200lbs lighter then a similarly setup/stripped awd can it?
____________________________
Shane Webster 1990 14b Talon AWD
That's a good goal. But, as fast as that car is going, those extra two tenths are going to be tough. That car can't get much lighter than what it already is and your driving is spot on, so i'm guessing some more power will be needed.
I'd like to see what an E16G would do on your car.
____________________________
Personal Best:
12.00 on 16G
12.42 @ 113 on 14b
I like those goals Phil, to me set your goals as reasonable and build upon that. I think with the cams, a better fmic option, perhaps an extrude honed manifold or similar, and a little more weight loss you should be able to hit those goals without too much issue. Have you compression tested lately? How healthy is that old beast of a motor? Might be something to think about too, obviously you want everything top notch to perform at it's best. Do you or anyone know how much Joe Bucci's car weighed? I can't honestly see it being more then 200lbs lighter then a similarly setup/stripped awd can it?
Cool, glad your on the same page as me.....those would be the three power parts I'd be interested in. But, the rollbar is going to mop up about $1400 as I will go with chromoly to keep it as light as possible. But, it will still add weight in. So, I may have to get a bit silly with the weight reduction. I have not comp tested that car in 7 yearsso who knows. I'm really not looking to pull the motor apart just to "freshen" it up as was recommended. If it comes apart, it will get built for sure, with all the advantages that Dave and Joe enjoy. Believe it or not, Joe B.s race weight is like 2200, with him in the car, and he doesn't appear to be a horse jockey. My car is still somewhere around 2330-2360, WITHOUT me in it, so yes, his car is WAY more than 200 lbs. lighter than mine. Remember, ONE gallon fuel cell up front in the engine compartment...all the lines and tank gone. Those thinnie rear wheels...etc. But, I can pull more weight, it's just how much, and now I introduce- how much will it cost me? I really have no FREE speed left. I miss those days! ET will be hard to come by now.......I am down to the nitty-gritty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooberlog
That's a good goal. But, as fast as that car is going, those extra two tenths are going to be tough. That car can't get much lighter than what it already is and your driving is spot on, so i'm guessing some more power will be needed.
I'd like to see what an E16G would do on your car.
I think so....and like I said after the dragday, I think there is .05 in the car the way it sits, so right at Nate's 11.44. I may even be able to toss some pressure back in the slicks and still match my 60' times and then have a bit more on the top end of the track. I am also going to do some dyno testing if possible. If I can get the larger intercooler, what I'm going to do is start to add some boost and see what happens, I think I'm about maxed at 21 psi, but these guys running 28-30 psi on 16g's to get the huge power are running out of the efficiency range of that turbo as well. For 1/4 mile fine, but to run that high on a daily or roadrace car I think would be pushing it. It seems to be working for them regardless. Granted, old-ass 14b ain't no new E316G but, it's worth a try to see if there's a bit more, but I doubt it, for the reason that 16psi got me 285 at the ground and a 5 psi bump to 21 netted "only" 10 more WHP at 295. Anyway, it's time to start investigating and searching.
____________________________
60' 1.48
ET 11.49
MPH 116.85
14b power!
Last edited by Phil1320; 11-04-2009 at 03:29 PM.
Reason: Auto-merged with previous post to prevent "bumping"
One thing I'd recomend if you want to add more boost is to add a stainless braided oil feed line to the turbo.
I took apart my 14b last winter after setting the record, and it had too much thrust play. The thrust bearing had a groove worn in it that was about 1mm deep when it should be flat. I was still using the stock oil feed line which has a restrictor hole in one end of the banjo fittings.
____________________________
11.514 on a 14b
10.77 on a GT35
I talked to FP about a rebuild and one of their "monster thrust bearings" that they put into Joe B's Evo III 16g. Can't remember what they told/quoted me though. It would be nice to start with a "new" turbo to handle the stress. You could always order a new 14b, but it would cost just as much as the evo III, just doesn't make sense unless you're crazy about it like we are haha!
Quote:
Believe it or not, Joe B.s race weight is like 2200, with him in the car, and he doesn't appear to be a horse jockey. My car is still somewhere around 2330-2360, WITHOUT me in it, so yes, his car is WAY more than 200 lbs. lighter than mine. Remember, ONE gallon fuel cell up front in the engine compartment...all the lines and tank gone. Those thinnie rear wheels...etc. But, I can pull more weight, it's just how much, and now I introduce- how much will it cost me? I really have no FREE speed left. I miss those days! ET will be hard to come by now.......I am down to the nitty-gritty.
That's why I said similarly set up awd, not your car! Wow, didn't realize it was that light though, fwd's have all the luck there. You still have stock side/front glass as well which is a good weight savings with lexan, but maybe not what you're looking to do.
____________________________
Shane Webster 1990 14b Talon AWD
phil, i would love to see what this car can do with a e16g! This would be your solution to getting into the 10's as your car is setup perfectly in every way. With the 14b your going to kill the car sooner or later and i bet its pushing a lot of heat by now. I would save the cash that you are planning to get cams, extrude honed intake etc... and bolt the e16g instaed. Faster et and mph FTW!!
btw, my car is coming along nicely and its pulling pretty good, so track will be here shortly.
One thing I'd recomend if you want to add more boost is to add a stainless braided oil feed line to the turbo.
I took apart my 14b last winter after setting the record, and it had too much thrust play. The thrust bearing had a groove worn in it that was about 1mm deep when it should be flat. I was still using the stock oil feed line which has a restrictor hole in one end of the banjo fittings.
Ok, never took a turbo apart but, I'll take your word for it. I still run the original feed line off the head. So run a stainless off the head or from the filter housing like I see people do?
Now that you are here Dave, what type of boost do you run? I have run as much as 23.5, but that was years back and seemed there was no gain over 20 at the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBstar
I talked to FP about a rebuild and one of their "monster thrust bearings" that they put into Joe B's Evo III 16g. Can't remember what they told/quoted me though. It would be nice to start with a "new" turbo to handle the stress. You could always order a new 14b, but it would cost just as much as the evo III, just doesn't make sense unless you're crazy about it like we are haha!
That's why I said similarly set up awd, not your car! Wow, didn't realize it was that light though, fwd's have all the luck there. You still have stock side/front glass as well which is a good weight savings with lexan, but maybe not what you're looking to do.
Yep, I said the same, in order to challenge Bucci, I have to match his level of modification and then some.......if I did, I feel strongly that I could beat his 1/8 mile for sure, just don't know if I could match ET on that second 1/8th.....
I have been in talks with a guy about side and windshield lexan.....we will see.
Dash Im on the fence about. An aluminum piece would be much lighter than even whats left of my dash.........
Bucci has set the bar VERY high, almost untouchable if you ask me. But, it's still a unibody car so it's still in the same class as far as I'm concerned. I think that's why when we talk about records, he sometimes doesn't get mentioned, because he is SO much quicker, we view it as a different class almost. He and his car definitely stand alone still... and that's why we can say I'm the record holder now, but, that is NOT true. Yeah, we can break it down into classes, but it skews the actual fact of the matter, Joe B. is still the quickest. The only "classing" that I feel is relevent is use of NOS. I can warrant separation there, but, the overall list does not discriminate. I will still be listed as 3rd. And considering I was #11 at the beginning of '09, I'm really happy about that. Pretty huge jump. I knew I was going to jump the 11.7-11.9 guys once I got the car on the track with some grip(slicks.) But, honestly, I wasn't sure I'd come this far. And, what could have happend years ago if regs didn't change from 11.99 to 11.49.....now the rollbar is needed. So, ultimately, I have taken the car as far as it can go with all that in mind. I maxed the car out as it sits and as safety regulations permit. I can't complain.
I appreciate that some of you guys think I've made a record pass. In some regards yes, maybe.....quickest DSM Stock turbo/engine is my claim to fame I'd guess. But, I'd rather not classify AWD vs. FWD 14b. As long as they are still unibody cars with factory drivetrains, that's ONE class to me. So, all things considered, I'm 3rd ALL TIME on the 14b, pretty darn proud after all the gaps in my racing since 2003 and the minimal seat time and time invested this year.
I think it's really going to get interesting from here on out with the 14b...
____________________________
60' 1.48
ET 11.49
MPH 116.85
14b power!
Last edited by Phil1320; 11-05-2009 at 08:23 AM.
Reason: Auto-merged with previous post to prevent "bumping"
Intersting for sure. I do agree with the all time 14b thing. But I guess I still like to classify between fwd/awd at times, and definately between w/nitrous vs. w/out nitrous. Overall 14b is of course the real class isn't it. In the end it depends on how far you want to push things Phil, you could always go full lexan, 1 gal. fuel cell, lightweight everything, etc. In the end Joe Bucci went all out and it's scary to think he probably still could've lightened the car a bit more. It definately becomes a pure track car at that point and once you cross the line of pure drag car it's tough to wonder if you're going to lose some of the enjoyment from the car.
____________________________
Shane Webster 1990 14b Talon AWD
phil, i would love to see what this car can do with a e16g! This would be your solution to getting into the 10's as your car is setup perfectly in every way. With the 14b your going to kill the car sooner or later and i bet its pushing a lot of heat by now. I would save the cash that you are planning to get cams, extrude honed intake etc... and bolt the e16g instaed. Faster et and mph FTW!!
btw, my car is coming along nicely and its pulling pretty good, so track will be here shortly.
You know, I have many people around here that want to see the same thing, me included......but, I just can't help but think there's a bit more in the 14b.
You bring up a solid point about literally killing the car or turbo.....
I have the cams already, just never put them in. You have a point about the money spending, but, I really need a better FMIC anyway, so I'll have to spend that either way. But, money that would be spent for further weight reduction could easlily buy a turbo......I get different votes:
-stay on the 14b
-add NOS to the 14b
-build motor and stay on 14b
-bolt on E316G
............decisions, decisions
That's great by the way and I'll look forward to hearing about your track visit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBstar
Intersting for sure. I do agree with the all time 14b thing. But I guess I still like to classify between fwd/awd at times, and definately between w/nitrous vs. w/out nitrous. Overall 14b is of course the real class isn't it. In the end it depends on how far you want to push things Phil, you could always go full lexan, 1 gal. fuel cell, lightweight everything, etc. In the end Joe Bucci went all out and it's scary to think he probably still could've lightened the car a bit more. It definately becomes a pure track car at that point and once you cross the line of pure drag car it's tough to wonder if you're going to lose some of the enjoyment from the car.
I hear you. That's the whole thing, how far I want to push it. Or more importantly, how much $ do I want to throw at it.....that answer to that, is plainly, NONE. Foolish of me to say, but, I speak the truth.
ONE gallon fuel cell--- NO FN way......10 gallon in the back where it belongs, a thought....major weight savings....probably not.
Lexan- I have the rear 1/4 windows to go in...major weight savings...probably not. Side windows and windshield, yeah maybe...major weight savings.....a decent amount I guess.
Polk control arms- major weight savings. About 22 lbs. If it's true that's big for unsprung weight. In the overall picture, not really.
Tubular front and rear subrames $$$$$$$$. Sure it would be great, not sure I trust them though for some reason and definitely would not trust them on the roadcourse in the future...so, a total waste of alot of cash IMHO.
lighter wheels- maybe, but will it net much OVER what I have now? Most likely not, and for the related cost....really not!
Carbon fiber doors---I WANT them yes....$$$$$ the guys gave me a great deal, but still were over $1000...weight savings...without a doubt...our stock doors are what keep the DSM from sounding like a Honda when we close them.....some heavy and solid ass doors.......Even my gutted driver door with roll up window is heavier than any honda civic door, ok maybe the latest civics are heavier....but, still DAMN heavy!!!!!
The dashboard, get rid of it for a custom aluminum piece. Weight savings......a bit.....and not a bad cost factor, but, the one thing that I loved about the Talon the first time I sat in one was the dash/console set up and overall feel. Console is gone, dash is all that's left. Talk about losing what I love about the car.....that may kill it....or not.....
........and now we add the weight of the cage.....but, I will get a new lighter seat to go with it, so maybe we lose a bit there.
It's really a crap shoot I'm involved in now......
....and after that list of expensive(thousands of dollars worth)of weight reduction efforts, will it net me .65 in the 1/4......not a chance.
So, where is the money better spent if it ever IS spent? That damn engine. I'm finally believing that the $$$ should be spent there. If that doesn't put me near or in the 10's, then spend the final bit on more extensive weight reduction if I'm that obsessed with being top gun.
Truth is, as camfast points out.....a $600 turbocharger puts all the above options to shame in the cost for ET gain ratio department.
So, I have decisions to make for sure. My main goal of 2009 was just to merely put the car in the 11's on the 14b. Something I should have done about 7 years back and couldn't. I never planned on challenging for the overall record ever again. And the way things look, I won't be challenging for it ever again. I did, however, run quicker than I thought, put myself in front of Leon once again, and in the end edged Dave's 11.51---with help from Dave himself. That success this year does make me want to continue a bit on the 14b, but, I may start doing like Dave, throw another turbo on, see how it goes, and I can always bolt the 14b back on for "an engine break in" or WHATEVER and see how it goes in the future. I'm less inclined to do that only because would probably just close the chapter as that's generally the way I work, but, there's always exceptions.
So, I will go out on the 14b next year to see if I can edge Nate Crisman's long standing run of 11.44. At that time I expect pneumo to be running about 11.25 on his 14b.....right in the arena I think I can squeeze out of my talon with a few minor changes. If he and I can get a healthy battle going in the LOW 11's, that may keep fueling the 14b fire. If I go out and the added weight of the rollbar combined with not much more performance out of the car with the cams and/or the ETS FMIC keeps me at or above 11.49, I really don't have a choice but to go with one of the above scenarios if I want to run quicker 1/4 mile times.
Keep in mind that some of the hypothetical costs of some of the above mentioned items will easily buy me some Wilwood brakes from TCE, some sick 17 X 9 inch wheels and some roadrace slicks......and there's the crossroads....which way will I go?
Almost makes me sick to think about it, but, what will be, will be.
Thanks for reading guys.......
____________________________
60' 1.48
ET 11.49
MPH 116.85
14b power!
Last edited by Phil1320; 11-05-2009 at 09:58 AM.
Reason: Auto-merged with previous post to prevent "bumping"
Well with winter peaking around the corner, it looks like you'll have plenty of time to think these things over. There might be some long cold nights in the garage this winter. I'm still plugging along to beat my old 14b record with the laser before i pull it off.
____________________________
Personal Best:
12.00 on 16G
12.42 @ 113 on 14b
A true crossroads. Nevertheless whatever you choose, you've done amazing things with the 14b and have paved a path for little turbo tuning! How many people with much much larger setups have not even been able to come close to what you're doing!?!?!
Make a run with Dave next year, see how far it goes and go from there. Seems to me your heart is set on doing some road course style stuff, I can't blame you, it's more fun then going in a straight line. I honestly don't think a dsm is the best platform for it, but it's what you know, and of course they say the same thing about the 14b not being the best "platform" for going fast right?
____________________________
Shane Webster 1990 14b Talon AWD
Well with winter peaking around the corner, it looks like you'll have plenty of time to think these things over. There might be some long cold nights in the garage this winter. I'm still plugging along to beat my old 14b record with the laser before i pull it off.
True, definitely have tons of time to think it over. Once the extreme cold hits, there will be no work on the car at all. I just exhausted the cash for the FMIC with the purchase of tires, all new timing belt stuff, water pump, and front axle CV boots for the Galant. So, I'm one step back on the talon already. I'm sure you will beat 12.42.....and again, you don't NEED to do anything with the car at all, just improve your driving and that's it! However, if your trans needs more work......obviously you'd want to get that rectified.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SBstar
A true crossroads. Nevertheless whatever you choose, you've done amazing things with the 14b and have paved a path for little turbo tuning! How many people with much much larger setups have not even been able to come close to what you're doing!?!?!
Make a run with Dave next year, see how far it goes and go from there. Seems to me your heart is set on doing some road course style stuff, I can't blame you, it's more fun then going in a straight line. I honestly don't think a dsm is the best platform for it, but it's what you know, and of course they say the same thing about the 14b not being the best "platform" for going fast right?
That's the tentative plan, but, truthfully, I may not even get the rollbar and new seat and harness in there for next year, which means, no racing it all. And quite honestly, I'm fine with that.
No doubt, if someone had the pick of cars for track days, noone would pick a 1G DSM. Sure, Miata, Corvette, 911, and numerous cars are better platforms, but I could care less about that. Half the guys out there with the "better platforms" can't drive for shit or are too scared to push a bit. Even though I only run for fun on track days and it isn't a race, I gave plenty of guys some fits trying to catch me in the EVO, and even in the Forester at the shorter 1.5 mile Lime Rock Park. I had guys in Vipers and Mustangs giving me props because the only place they could get me was on the straights. Now, that's with a Forester with a cat back probably putting down maybe 185 AWHP, my EVO had a down pipe and cat-back, with the stock cat still on the car, so maybe 245 AWHP. Forester 3300 lbs and EVO at about 3300 also. Now, we take a 2400 lb car, my talon, back the boost down to 16 and still make 280 HP at the ground. Anyone that was near me or running quicker than me by a couple of seconds will be dust in the wind, so it should still be quick even though not the best set-up. The speed differential will be huge, as well as braking as the car is so light. I've got the camber plates for adjustment up front and the Polk A-arms would provide even more. Sure, it's still not an M3 or a Lotus Elise, but it will get the job done and can still learn a bunch. I've been driving FWD cars since I got my license and AWD since '96. If we still had our Z06 Vette, I'd be out learning some RWD technique, but, I wouldn't be able to take the traction control off because I'd be afraid of tossing it into the woods.
The other thing is that I've been driving cars I owe money on at the track days, and they were my daily drivers. That is kinda the point of some track days, to get your street car out there so that you can see how the car reacts to certain things that may help you on the street. I would feel much better about circling the track in a car that doesn't need to get me to work the following week.
Anyway, I'd use the Galant as the daily/track day car, but, I have no cash to throw at that if I plan to do anything to the talon. I kinda like the fact that the VR4 is just bone stock....and it still cost me some extra cash just to get the maintenance up to date.
So.......I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy the accomplishments like you said, and think about what the plan will be. Right now, I'm only speculating, the more I think, the more I want to do absolutely nothing to the talon at all as far as drag racing goes. I say that I'll be out next year, but then, I regress and wonder if I will be or not.
If not, I'll pop some Orville Redenbocker's and watch what else goes on with all you guys.......
____________________________
60' 1.48
ET 11.49
MPH 116.85
14b power!
Last edited by Phil1320; 11-05-2009 at 05:19 PM.
Reason: Auto-merged with previous post to prevent "bumping"
10's would be nice.......that will be my final goal most likely......just wondering if I'll need a 16G variant to get there.
Stop that....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooberlog
I'd like to see what an E16G would do on your car.
....I said cut it out....
Quote:
Originally Posted by camfast
phil, i would love to see what this car can do with a e16g! .
....enough already......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil1320
You know, I have many people around here that want to see the same thing, me included......
-stay on the 14b
-add NOS to the 14b
-build motor and stay on 14b
-bolt on E316G no, no, no
............decisions, decisions
We gotta get you to a shrink
Well, I guess its obvious where my vote lies .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil1320
I just don't know that I can somehow reduce ET another .50 to give me a 10.99. I'm definitely trying to work out a strategy to see what I can do.
Agreed, that will be difficult/impossible to do on the fully stock, uncracked, unsprayed motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil1320
I most likely really can't get the car out of the hole much better.....maybe low 1.4's but that most likely will not net me much at all on the other end of the track.
Agreed, gonna be real, real difficult at this power level to get into the 1.3's. I'm thinking beer can here. Just too much inertia to overcome. 1.4's are quite impressive, 1.3's?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil1320
So, I've got a tough task now. Depending on what I'm able to pull together for next year, the initial goal is to run better than the 11.49 and maybe edge Nate's 11.44. That's probably the most I can ask for at this early stage. I think 2 tenths would be an accomplishment next year, so 11.29.........................
What do you guys think?
Agreed as well. I'm a big proponent of raising your goals high. But don't try to raise them to an unreachable level. That just makes for disappointment in well deserved accomplishments. I would put breaking into the 10's as the long term goal.
Couple of things to put out there; as for the turbo itself. It may do you some good to shoot your turbo over to Robert. BUT keep in mind that you are over 300awhp on a 14b. How much more would you expect to see out of her IF you got her rebuilt? If we're talking port/clip/alter her a bit then that's one thing. If we're just looking at a rebuild.....I'd discuss that with him.
Slicks are always a balance of launch and trap speed. You may try to put back a couple of pounds to get a few hundredths out. Its possible.
Weight, as we all know, is a biggie. I know that a 3 gallon cell will help you up front [weight transference to the front [which isn't all that important for AWD, but I believe it is better]/overall weight loss/ less movement of fuel) but I'm thinking for the cost and time, the savings will be minimal.
You and I agree on the spray. Leave that to Turbo Tony
Gotta hit up the engine. Get those cams in there. They should give you more peak power, more power up top and more power under the curve (if somebody did their job right). Put the bigger front mount on there and check her out at that point (I'm sure there are a couple of things we discussed that I am forgetting right now, but those two things, plus some weight savings, should help).
Now you haven't even gone into fine tuning (i.e. DSMLink...er...ECMLink etc.). I honestly don't know if it will even help you, but that option has not been tried yet.
I think there's a little bit more to do that's not THAT pricey, before you really start getting into goofy things.
Just a little dos dinero's from a goofy Polack.
MB
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Mark's other car; 420a Turbo 11.414@119.62
Agreed, that will be difficult/impossible to do on the fully stock, uncracked, unsprayed motor.
Agreed, gonna be real, real difficult at this power level to get into the 1.3's. I'm thinking beer can here. Just too much inertia to overcome. 1.4's are quite impressive, 1.3's?
Agreed as well. I'm a big proponent of raising your goals high. But don't try to raise them to an unreachable level. That just makes for disappointment in well deserved accomplishments. I would put breaking into the 10's as the long term goal.
Couple of things to put out there; as for the turbo itself. It may do you some good to shoot your turbo over to Robert. BUT keep in mind that you are over 300awhp on a 14b. How much more would you expect to see out of her IF you got her rebuilt? If we're talking port/clip/alter her a bit then that's one thing. If we're just looking at a rebuild.....I'd discuss that with him.
Slicks are always a balance of launch and trap speed. You may try to put back a couple of pounds to get a few hundredths out. Its possible.
Weight, as we all know, is a biggie. I know that a 3 gallon cell will help you up front [weight transference to the front [which isn't all that important for AWD, but I believe it is better]/overall weight loss/ less movement of fuel) but I'm thinking for the cost and time, the savings will be minimal.
You and I agree on the spray. Leave that to Turbo Tony
Gotta hit up the engine. Get those cams in there. They should give you more peak power, more power up top and more power under the curve (if somebody did their job right). Put the bigger front mount on there and check her out at that point (I'm sure there are a couple of things we discussed that I am forgetting right now, but those two things, plus some weight savings, should help).
Now you haven't even gone into fine tuning (i.e. DSMLink...er...ECMLink etc.). I honestly don't know if it will even help you, but that option has not been tried yet.
I think there's a little bit more to do that's not THAT pricey, before you really start getting into goofy things.
Just a little dos dinero's from a goofy Polack.
MB
This was funny!
True, I don't think even a 1.40 60' will make much of a difference at the 1/4. 1.3's would be killer, but, not a goal of mine per se'.
I'd try throwing a bit more pressure in the slicks to try to pick up tenth or two at the top of the track, while hopefully hittin similar 60' times.
I made 304 AWHP - UNCORRECTED....my corrected number is 295. I'm not sure what any tweaks to the turbo would do for me at all. Clipping they say is a good thing at the top of the track as more exhaust gas can escape, but, I never wanted to clip because of the throttle response loss, that was when the car was a street car......wouldn't be good for the roadcourse either. Robert did recommend clipping and did want me to send the turbo to him for inspection and such. The compressor outlet can also be ported to help flow. So there are some tweaks to the turbo to do
If the motor was built and tuned as well as pneumo's, 320 plus at the wheels is possible. I bet Joe B's FWD did 330-350 at the wheels, even as light as he was, the 126 MPH traps suggests that type of power to move 2200 lbs. down the track with that kind of speed.
Yes, I think a DSMlink, or AEM would help out quite a bit with getting ALL the power potential out of the car. It might be worth 10 horsepower, who knows?
I could lose the MAF entirely, or have thought about the GM MAF blowthrough that may also help, but, it's a matter of how much? Again, who knows?
So, your vote is obviously to keep the 14b on the car Well, your vote will prevail, not quite in the fashion that you or me are/were thinking.
OK GUYS, HERE'S THE CURVEBALL.............
..........I wasn't and won't get into this as much as I thought I might, but, beating around the bush a little, here's the deal:
I won't get TOO personal, to summarize:
I was laid off my job LAST December, found a new job in January, was laid off that job at the end of March. I have not been able to regain employment since. It has been pretty tough to say the least. I'll leave it at that. A few other things have come into play, the last one just this morning. With all of that, unless things change drastically for me between now and January:
There is NO chance that a rollbar will be installed in my Talon for next year. Therefore, I will not be drag racing the car. Before all this other stuff we're talking about can even be realistic, the car needs to meet the safety standard required to run.
I'm sorry to be a bit vague, but, I feel I have divulged enough to make the point and let you guys understand the situation.
Unfortunately, I am still suffering some blows to my ego, my character, and my bank account. As stated above, this morning waking up to another, which has prompted this post.
Well, that's it. I have not started a blog about me and the talon for the main reason that I thought things may come to this. No use really getting into anything if there is no/minimal chance that I'll run next year.
I believe things can change for the better, but, they still haven't and certain things are much worse. There are a few other factors at work here that I'm not at liberty to discuss at this time.
I'm sorry to report this. DSMtuners is a place where we come to discuss the hobby we love and to report and congratulate accomplishments with our awesome cars. Sorry to change that tone
Hopefully, things will turn around...
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60' 1.48
ET 11.49
MPH 116.85
14b power!
I can feel ya Phil. Our lives have mimicked each others for the past 10 years or so.
Fall of 2002 we both found dsmtuners, a few years later we both got in to sport bikes. We both had a motorcycle accident and went back to dsms around 08/09, we both lost our jobs late 2008.
The job situation is definitely tough. I have been working part time since January and have been applying to different police departments for about two years now. I don't know what i would do if it wasn't for my wife.
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Personal Best:
12.00 on 16G
12.42 @ 113 on 14b
I can feel ya Phil. Our lives have mimicked each others for the past 10 years or so.
Fall of 2002 we both found dsmtuners, a few years later we both got in to sport bikes. We both had a motorcycle accident and went back to dsms around 08/09, we both lost our jobs late 2008.
The job situation is definitely tough. I have been working part time since January and have been applying to different police departments for about two years now. I don't know what i would do if it wasn't for my wife.
You are right....they really have.....
......it is really tough, and unforgiving to say the least.
And, kudos to your last line. I don't know what I'd do either man.....
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60' 1.48
ET 11.49
MPH 116.85
14b power!
I have not comp tested that car in 7 years
so who knows. I'm really not looking to pull the motor apart just to "freshen" it up as was recommended. If it comes apart, it will get built for sure, with all the advantages that Dave and Joe enjoy. Believe it or not, Joe B.s race weight is like 2200, with him in the car, and he doesn't appear to be a horse jockey. My car is still somewhere around 2330-2360, WITHOUT me in it, so yes, his car is WAY more than 200 lbs. lighter than mine. Remember, ONE gallon fuel cell up front in the engine compartment...all the lines and tank gone. Those thinnie rear wheels...etc. But, I can pull more weight, it's just how much, and now I introduce- how much will it cost me? I really have no FREE speed left. I miss those days! ET will be hard to come by now.......I am down to the nitty-gritty.
NO FN way......10 gallon in the back where it belongs, a thought....major weight savings....probably not.
