"Newer" 4g64 in a 2g

dragonov_elite · 03-25-2012, 11:56 PM

Very interesting thread so far. One thing i can see being a possible problem. How long the do you see the knock sensor lasting while being that close to the exhaust system? Are they made for that kind of heat?

tametalon92 · 03-26-2012, 12:46 PM

nice work man! im impressed, keep plugging away! as for knock sensor location, idk if it would be a problem. on all the toyota motors ive worked on, they put the knock sensor in what seems the hottest possible spot. on the 7mgte, they are both right next to the turbo manifold, and work just fine. on the 7mge (n/a) it is dead center in the block right next to the exhaust manifold.

so with a small shield i would think it would be ok. but it is a dsm after all...

delta448 · 03-26-2012, 02:37 PM

I would just use this hole on the right side (our head's intake side) of the block for the knock sensor. This was used as an intake manifold support bracket boss on my 2003 4G64 engine, and is located in the jacket right behind cylinder 2 so it should function pretty much the same as the location on our 4G63 engines. Most people toss the intake manifold brace in the trash anyhow, and you wouldn't be able to use it with any of the available SMIMs either.

m3th0d · 03-26-2012, 03:33 PM

I have the same 4g64 short block 2.3 stroker it came included with a deal i made when I bought the car. I'm wondering if I can use the evo 8 head on it, I know it will be backwords but is it possible?

bryanwheat · 03-26-2012, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m3th0d

I have the same 4g64 short block 2.3 stroker it came included with a deal i made when I bought the car. I'm wondering if I can use the evo 8 head on it, I know it will be backwords but is it possible?

Putting the evo head on it will put the exhaust manifold and turbo on the back of the engine and the intake on the front of the engine.

tametalon92 · 03-26-2012, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryanwheat

Putting the evo head on it will put the exhaust manifold and turbo on the back of the engine and the intake on the front of the engine.

i think he knows that, hes just wondering if its possible. which, i dont see why not, but the question still presents itself: why?

m3th0d · 03-26-2012, 04:41 PM

Reason is that I can get an evo8 head for 40 dlls and I wont have to modify anything but the exhaust to come down the back. I know I would have to shield the heat and make other mods but at least this way I have the head and block without any mods to it.

bryanwheat · 03-26-2012, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m3th0d

Reason is that I can get an evo8 head for 40 dlls and I wont have to modify anything but the exhaust to come down the back. I know I would have to shield the heat and make other mods but at least this way I have the head and block without any mods to it.

And your coolant hoses will face towards the firewall. The starter will interfere with the turbo. You will have to remake your intercooler piping, intake pipe, and wiring. This is an awful idea. There is nothing better about the evo head that would make this a good idea.

m3th0d · 03-26-2012, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bryanwheat

And your coolant hoses will face towards the firewall. The starter will interfere with the turbo. You will have to remake your intercooler piping, intake pipe, and wiring. This is an awful idea. There is nothing better about the evo head that would make this a good idea.

Very true, I agree I didnt take all that into account.

DSMReviver · 03-28-2012, 10:09 PM

Keep going keep us updated please.

WES_393 · 03-29-2012, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m3th0d

I have the same 4g64 short block 2.3 stroker it came included with a deal i made when I bought the car. I'm wondering if I can use the evo 8 head on it, I know it will be backwords but is it possible?

No, like Bryan was saying it's totally backassward from the DSM head. And trust me when I say the ONLY plus about the Evo head design is a smaller cylinder dome which raises compression to 9:1. For the work and price of installing an Evo head, you could buy 9:1 pistons and be done with it. But, like I'm showing here, the DSM head will bolt right onto that 3g 4g64 you have.

But enough about Evo heads, lets keep this about 3g 4g6X engines.

Quote:

Keep going keep us updated please.

I certainly will. I get paid at the stroke of midnight today so I'll be ordering a brand new 2g starter plate from STM.

As for the knock sensor, I think it would be protected from heat IF it can clear the water pipe. It would sit right behind it. If not, I'll use the spot Delta showed. With all the pointleas brackets, supports, and random holes, there is no way the knock sensor will be an issue. I hope to get the ball rolling on this soon, just too many damn projects right now

m3th0d · 03-29-2012, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WES_393

No, like Bryan was saying it's totally backassward from the DSM head. And trust me when I say the ONLY plus about the Evo head design is a smaller cylinder dome which raises compression to 9:1. For the work and price of installing an Evo head, you could buy 9:1 pistons and be done with it. But, like I'm showing here, the DSM head will bolt right onto that 3g 4g64 you have.

But enough about Evo heads, lets keep this about 3g 4g6X engines.

I certainly will. I get paid at the stroke of midnight today so I'll be ordering a brand new 2g starter plate from STM.

As for the knock sensor, I think it would be protected from heat IF it can clear the water pipe. It would sit right behind it. If not, I'll use the spot Delta showed. With all the pointleas brackets, supports, and random holes, there is no way the knock sensor will be an issue. I hope to get the ball rolling on this soon, just too many damn projects right now

Yes I looked into it and it would have been a terrible idea. I'm doing same project too and I will try to keep up with you since I already have a built 4g64 block.

I have a question, how are you planning on covering the extra holes on the block?

Here is what I ran into a little bit ago

...

In order for the tranny and engine to sit correctly I have to weld and retap the top right hole and the left one and weld a piece on the bottom right and tap a hole on it too. I don't it's a good idea but im going all in on this and I'm going to try to make it work.

P.s. Sorry for the bad pic I have poor lighting and the camera on my cell is not the best and by no means am I trying to steal this thread sorry I just wanted to share this.

DSMReviver · 03-31-2012, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m3th0d

Yes I looked into it and it would have been a terrible idea. I'm doing same project too and I will try to keep up with you since I already have a built 4g64 block.

Here is what I ran into a little bit ago

...

P.s. Sorry for the bad pic I have poor lighting and the camera on my cell is not the best and by no means am I trying to steal this thread sorry I just wanted to share this.

That is a 1g starter plate. It will not work, looks like you will need a 2g one. Look here vvvvvvvvvv

WTB: 1G FWD Turbo Starter Plate

There are differences between the two starter plates.

19Eclipse90 · 04-01-2012, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSMReviver

That is a 1g starter plate. It will not work, looks like you will need a 2g one. Look here vvvvvvvvvv

WTB: 1G FWD Turbo Starter Plate

There are differences between the two starter plates.

Are we looking at the same thing?

The poster above you clearly has a plate that looks like the 2G plate in the thread you linked to, which is the old plate. The new plate (1G) looks very different.

m3th0d · 04-01-2012, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19Eclipse90

Are we looking at the same thing?

The poster above you clearly has a plate that looks like the 2G plate in the thread you linked to, which is the old plate. The new plate (1G) looks very different.

What he ^ said, I got this plate off my car which is a 97 gsx 2g.

WES_393 · 04-01-2012, 01:08 AM

Thanks for showing that m3thod. The trans in my Talon recently decided that it didn't want to be friends with the front diff. So I'll have the trans off to go to Jacks. Before I take it, I will (or attempt to) bolt up the 3g 4g64 to the trans. That will give us a definitive answer. I'll also be putting the 2g 4g63 motor mount on the 3g block and dropping it into the bay to see how well it fits.

m3th0d · 04-01-2012, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WES_393

Thanks for showing that m3thod. The trans in my Talon recently decided that it didn't want to be friends with the front diff. So I'll have the trans off to go to Jacks. Before I take it, I will (or attempt to) bolt up the 3g 4g64 to the trans. That will give us a definitive answer. I'll also be putting the 2g 4g63 motor mount on the 3g block and dropping it into the bay to see how well it fits.

You're welcome, I haven't checked with the motor mount yet I first want the engine to line up to the tranny and then I'll move on to the next problem. I'm currently working on a sandwich plate to add the new holes up and I will be doing that with stainless steel I dont want to weld to the cast iron block. I will post up some pics some time this week so you guys can get an idea of what I'm talking about.

mysticj · 04-02-2012, 02:53 PM

I see I'm not the only one taking up this project. The only difference is that I'm planning to use the G4JS block, Hyundai version of the 4G64 DOHC.

arrowhead · 04-02-2012, 05:30 PM

What models hyundai? and what years?

thanks

mysticj · 04-02-2012, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arrowhead

What models hyundai? and what years?

thanks

hyundai sonata and santa fe. Kia optima. 99-04. the dsm head will make the compression around 11.5:1

tametalon92 · 04-03-2012, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m3th0d

Yes I looked into it and it would have been a terrible idea. I'm doing same project too and I will try to keep up with you since I already have a built 4g64 block.

I have a question, how are you planning on covering the extra holes on the block?

for the extra holes, you can get some freezy plugs and some sealant. thats my plan. just measure holes, go to parts store, find proper sizes.

TexasTurbo · 04-04-2012, 06:52 AM

Why not tap threads into the holes that need plugs then use a bolt you have laying around w/ the head cut off and the shaft slotted to fill the spots like the plugs in the head do?

mysticj · 04-04-2012, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tametalon92

i think he knows that, hes just wondering if its possible. which, i dont see why not, but the question still presents itself: why?

Weight distribution--more weight behind the axle, less off the front nose for the vehicle. Great for road racing, not too great for DD.

m3th0d · 04-07-2012, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasTurbo

Why not tap threads into the holes that need plugs then use a bolt you have laying around w/ the head cut off and the shaft slotted to fill the spots like the plugs in the head do?

I think this will be more work than what he said >>>

Quote:

Originally Posted by tametalon92

for the extra holes, you can get some freezy plugs and some sealant. thats my plan. just measure holes, go to parts store, find proper sizes.

arrowhead · 04-16-2012, 08:51 AM

Hey wes any updates on that plate and final set up I am waiting for the final verdict to see if it will work, this is good stuff you are doing.

mysticj · 04-17-2012, 02:34 PM

I'm still working on the tranny mount dilemma if I can't get someone to weld/retap the mounting holes.

arrowhead · 04-19-2012, 06:46 AM

That sounds like not too big of a problem I am sure you will find the solution, if you were closer, I would do it for you, I am so interested on this that, if I were not involved in these other projects I would get a like motor and work on the solution also.

Dont give up on this.

arrowhead · 04-23-2012, 07:18 PM

Wes, come on tell us something.

tametalon92 · 05-07-2012, 05:10 PM

yea, starting to wonder if you are alright? whats the good word on this setup?

WES_393 · 05-07-2012, 05:57 PM

Sorry for the huge fail on updates. When I had my trans off I put the starter plate up to the block. It is a bit off just like M3thod showed with his pictures, but enough to make it more than a simple bolt on affair. So I'm open to suggestions if anyone has any ideas. I think an adapter plate is way out of the picture so new bolt holes would need to be welded onto the trans. And until I can pick up a spare bell housing, there won't be any further updates for a while. Like I said before, this is my on-the-side project so it will definitely take more than a few months to make some serious progress.

If anyone else is doing this project and making some progress, please feel free to post some info for the rest of us.