My humble opinion is that if this setup makes just 300hp it is a great success. It would mean that the only thing wrong is the choice of turbos but I really don't see how it won't work toward your intended goals. Diesels are a bit different but the way they spool turbos and move oxygen is no different than any other internal combustion engine. I hope you shut all of these nay sayers up.
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Making power, and not knowing exactly what the setup is doing isn't really a success imho. Making just 300hp would put Pauls entire time into this project a total waste, without some type results that would help progress another setup.
At worst case scenario, I'm hoping just a redesign of the exhaust manifold would only be needed.
Even if the setup only makes 300hp, it would have a crazy torque and hp curve, or should I say line...
Um... my car would have a crazy torque/hp curve too at only 300hp. Set the boost curve so I never get more than 300hp, and I'd have a flat 300hp from 3300 to 8 grand.
Since the bigger turbo is feeding the smaller then it is safe to assume it would build up pressure in the pipe between the inlet and outlet.
Yes, most definitely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakcenter
Do you think it is possible that the output in that pipe may be lower than the actual output of the turbo since the other is drawing in air ? It would seem to me that there would be some pressure drop equal to the work / draw of the smaller.
I'm not sure if it works that way. But even if it did, I'd bet that the 'draw' of the B16G is less than 1 in/hg. Interesting point though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hakcenter
Is it necessary for the smaller turbo to recompress the largers air ? Or would the final lbs/min be the same if they fed the motor like a twin setup ?
It's my understanding that the majority of the work being done is the smaller turbo re-compressing the larger turbo's air charge. This is how the final air charge becomes so dense (basically more mass in the same volume). I'm not 100% sure what the lbs/min output is going to be in relation to another type of set-up.
____________________________
-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
You drive it yet Paul??? How close are you.. A lot of people i have talked about just don't understand it and it seems like a lot of people on here don't, either...
____________________________
-=John Whalen=-
WH1C w/ .55ar BEP
i don't get how people wouldn't understand it... pretty simple stuff...makes sense to me. i keep peeking my head in to hear how this thing is going. and i just want to see how this project is coming along. can't wait to see it when it's all mounted up!
No, the car isn't complete yet. I've been slacking.
I just got the radiator back in, so I can put the turbos back in tonight and connect the plumbing. I need to fab some of the exhaust system still, fill fluids, finish the electrical, fix a leaky injector 0-ring, etc... All little boring things that I've been putting off.
And in recent news, I had a light ballast fall from the ceiling in the garage. Half of it landed on my head , and the other half on the engine bay. Lots of broken glass scattered around my engine bay and down in the timing belt cover. Now, I get to take all of that apart tonight to fish out shards of glass. FUN!
____________________________
-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
Im not even going to get into trying to fully understand all this compound charging stuff but I just wanted to say good luck , make sure you do some videos and dynos when you get it running, also because I am interesting in how the Kelfords work out for you as well.
These Kelfords are going to kick some ass. I sent the 272 specs over to my buddy who did my cylinder head work, and he said they should perform very well. Did you ever figure out which springs you're going with?
____________________________
-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
Um... my car would have a crazy torque/hp curve too at only 300hp. Set the boost curve so I never get more than 300hp, and I'd have a flat 300hp from 3300 to 8 grand.
No crazier than the 16g by itself... till like stage 2, does anyone else really understand what is going on here ?
Just so everyone is clear, there's no staged "transition" from one turbo to the other being that they're both always functioning and working toward the overall output.
____________________________
-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
You are trying to utilize the best of both compressors here, the quick spool of the 16g, and the top end of the 60-1 here right. With the added benefit of neither compressor working as hard as 1 would by itself to reach your desired boost level.
These Kelfords are going to kick some ass. I sent the 272 specs over to my buddy who did my cylinder head work, and he said they should perform very well. Did you ever figure out which springs you're going with?
but seriously, i was thinking like by stage 3 your torque would be like wtfhax ??
on a real serious note, is the glass cleaned up so you can run this and tell us what happens... im on the edge of my seat ridding this turtle screamin, 'whooooooppyyyyy'
Hi Paul. I've been watching this thread, but not able to post until making
it to a proven member. If you don't mind a sugestion, the b16g comp
entry can be milled as close to a 7deg taper to the wheel as possable.
A 7deg entry & a 12deg expansion has been flow bench measurements
in my head for years. It is an easy mod & might help the compounding.
Another thought in my head for you is 1 twisted blade in the pipe blowing
into the b16g comp. My reasoning is to give the air coming from the large
comp a directional spin to continue matching the b16g's spining direction.
I know it sounds like an ebay spiral pos, but in your case, you don't want
air hitting the b16g comp blade at an inconsistant directional spin. I think
your compounding system looks a goer. About the only thing I see neg, is
the b16g bearings will need checking for ware more offten than a single T.
I've never heard of a wheel (meaning the comp wheel) designed to suck
in & be blown at to spin. Thumbs up for all the DIY & time put in.
Cheers !
____________________________
--Aldo
LSD Auto & LSD rear. Switchable FWD/AWD
Looks like a one way valve on the inlet of big turbo. small turbo feeds compressed air to big turbo/engine. Looks to me like its compound during spool up. Then the small turbo is bypassed and it becomes big single. I thought it ingenious. but what do I know..
I believe AMS said that it didn't work that well. The first configuration in this thread pictured several times is proven to work better. And it has an internal gate for the small turbo.
Also research Ray Peters twin charged setup. The turbo feeds a supercharger. The supercharger was not bypassed after spool, only before to keep the heat down during light cruise (superchargers are not load dependent). It did very well. The 18g turbo fed into the m62 (tiny supercharger) and it made 450whp at 22psi with the td05h 7cm^2 turbine. He saw full boost before 2000rpms with a 2.0L motor.
____________________________
Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
I know the car in this thread has a bigger turbo and then a smaller one, but wonder how well it'd word to have 2 of the same exact turbo's. Like two 20g's or something. Hmmm...
When you fire it up get it on vid!
