Isn't there a better valve than that for the first WG? It just seems like the extra backpressure you're getting from that restrictive WG is a waste of torque.
Better how?
Without redesigning the entire thing, there really isn't room to do it any differently. But, boost control has been rock solid thus far, so I don't really have any complaints either. What part of the wastegate design do you feel is the most restrictive?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenamond
Also, do you think you'll have trouble getting all four cylinders running the same? Seems like #1 and #2 will have less backpressure after the first WG opens.
I don't think it will be a problem. The area in which the wastegate gathers exhaust is literally one inch from the collector. I'll probably never have the data acquisition equipment on this car to test individual cylinder backpressure though, so I'll probably never know for sure.
____________________________
-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
Advertisement
To browse the forums without the advertisements above, Login/Register
Better how?
Without redesigning the entire thing, there really isn't room to do it any differently. But, boost control has been rock solid thus far, so I don't really have any complaints either. What part of the wastegate design do you feel is the most restrictive?
I've kept myself awake many hours over the past couple of years thinking of various options for a valve that flows a lot of air open but also leaves a nice-flowing passage when closed. I'm not knocking your design; I was just wondering if there are other designs out there. Ideally, you'd want the manifold to miraculously change shape, but there's gotta be something that opens a gigantic passage but also holds backpressure while the first turbo builds boost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 99gst_racer
I don't think it will be a problem. The area in which the wastegate gathers exhaust is literally one inch from the collector. I'll probably never have the data acquisition equipment on this car to test individual cylinder backpressure though, so I'll probably never know for sure.
Does the collector still have the humps between 1&4 and 2&3 that direct the flow toward the turbine? I understand that they help keep the alternating cylinders from sending exhaust pulses up the opposite runner, but they'd also get in the way of #3 and #4 exhaust flow when the WG opens and is flowing more than the smaller turbine. That ties back to what keeps me up at night; it'd be nice to have the WG at the collector or perhaps between the collector and smaller turbine housing inlet...and have it open WAAAY up *and* have a nice shape for efficient flow.
Anyway, it obviously works and is obviously a significant accomplishment for a DSM; I was just curious about those two things.
____________________________
-Mack
Last edited by kenamond; 07-07-2009 at 09:27 PM.
Reason: QUOTE tags incorrectly nested.
just saw the video of the first startup, man this is awesome. Lotta hardwork put into this, glad you were able to achieve what you did. Now hope everything else turns out as planned
Wow thats an amazing setup, I was really impressed by the wastegate system and how you set it up to recirculate into the 60 trim and bypass the td05. I have always thought about making compound setups but not quite this, this is a more efficient method than what I had in mind. I'm glad somebody did this, really makes me want to build a compound system a few years down the road.
Have you found a point of diminishing return yet? Probably not since you were saying you are holding up on the methanol system so far. Have you considered a water-to-air intercooler?
Well, I've just recently started getting this tuned with the help of Brian (snowborder714). Hopefully I'll have a decent log to share within a few days.
Meanwhile, I do have my GoPro camera to play with. What kind of videos would you guys like to see?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphix
Wow thats an amazing setup, I was really impressed by the wastegate system and how you set it up to recirculate into the 60 trim and bypass the td05. I have always thought about making compound setups but not quite this, this is a more efficient method than what I had in mind. I'm glad somebody did this, really makes me want to build a compound system a few years down the road.
Have you found a point of diminishing return yet? Probably not since you were saying you are holding up on the methanol system so far. Have you considered a water-to-air intercooler?
Thanks, man.
So far, I haven't had it past 8000 RPMs, but it pulls very hard up to that point. Airflow seems to be climbing steadily and never drops off. I'll be curious to see how it feels in the 8K-9K range. As of right now, I'm sitting at 28 psig boost on a pretty rich tune, and not much knock to speak of. I might not even need methanol. Then again, I don't know what my AITs are yet either. I have considered an air-to-water IC, although I no longer feel I have enough room under the hood for one. We'll see.
____________________________
-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
Do you have any idea how much boost each turbo is making? I would think there's some power to be gained by balancing the ammount of boost each turbo makes.
____________________________
11.514 on a 14b
10.77 on a GT35
I'm the least creative with a camera than anyone else you'll ever know. Give me ideas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneumo
Do you have any idea how much boost each turbo is making? I would think there's some power to be gained by balancing the ammount of boost each turbo makes.
The 60-1 is gated at 17.something psi and the 16g is at one bar (14.7 psi). It seems to be holding steady at about 28 psi on my MAP sensor and my mechanical boost gauge. I plan on raising boost via a Hallman MBC T'd to the side port on the 16g's wastegate. Ultimately, they both be gated within .3 bar of each other. I'd say that's decent balance, if there is anything to be gained from it.
____________________________
-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
No offense, and I mean this in the nicest possible way . . . but I freakin hate you right now. Na, Just kidding, you're my new hero.
I don't! You know why? When this gets out to the press (lol), your going to see a DSM on the front cover of a few tuner mags, and its going to be this one. I dunno when a DSM was last on front page of a mag? Has to be a few years right?
____________________________
-Josh
94 Talon TSI AWD
Headlights are EBAY.
Yeah that would definitely take up some space, and you heatsoak unless you get a radiator for the water.
When I get the oppurtunity, I'll be doing an air/water setup in the stock sidemount location and also tucking a 20g under some stock heat shields. Not sure exactly how much there is down there to play, but it's a possibility.
Not sure exactly how much there is down there to play, but it's a possibility.
Do you mean if you can fit the 20g in there or if you can fit a L2A intercooler system in there with it? You shouldnt have too many troubles fitting a 20g in. And a L2A radiator is pretty slim too I dont think it gets past 2" thick usually. It would fit really good in a A2A location. If I had enough issues with heatsoak you could probably fit two sandwiched together in the FMIC location.
Quote:
I dunno when a DSM was last on front page of a mag? Has to be a few years right?
Everytime I read a car mag I look for one, you see older cars like a Silvia and 300zx, but no DSM's I think they miss out on alot of really unique cars. Like this one for example. I would hope to see this in a magazine and hope that the compound turbo setup is uncommon enough to catch a magazines eye. This is the sortof shit magazines should make articles on, instead I see stuff on N/A Hondas with flashy interiors and a set of rims that are making it into Modified Mag.
Do you mean if you can fit the 20g in there or if you can fit a L2A intercooler system in there with it? You shouldnt have too many troubles fitting a 20g in. And a L2A radiator is pretty slim too I dont think it gets past 2" thick usually. It would fit really good in a A2A location. If I had enough issues with heatsoak you could probably fit two sandwiched together in the FMIC location.
Everytime I read a car mag I look for one, you see older cars like a Silvia and 300zx, but no DSM's I think they miss out on alot of really unique cars. Like this one for example. I would hope to see this in a magazine and hope that the compound turbo setup is uncommon enough to catch a magazines eye. This is the sortof shit magazines should make articles on, instead I see stuff on N/A Hondas with flashy interiors and a set of rims that are making it into Modified Mag.
Dsm's are evo's these days that's why. You see evo's in every mag and that's all we get these days. Last dsm I saw was a galant vr4 in a sport compact like a year or two ago. Wasn't even heavily modded just clean.
Actually, 0-60 Magazine, the best damn car rag you can get these days, had a little two pager about the stock DSMs and why they are still the shit. 0-60mag.com Blog Archive Eagle Talon TSi AWD Get the magazine off the news rack and read the article. They get one little cosmetic reference wrong but otherwise it is a nice reminder of just how huge the AWD advantage was back in the day.
____________________________
Nick - AWD turbo swapped USDM 7g Galant
I wanna see from a roll at 2 grand or less, in like 3rd or 4th gear.
I don't think I'm ever below 2K while rolling.
It doesn't start to make power until 3K, so I've been doing most of my pulls/logs from 3-8K. I do have a third gear pull vid, but it's pretty boring, IMO.
On a side note; My fluidampnr came loose yesterday while on my way home. I limped it the last few hundred feet, but boy did it sound violent. I lucked out that nothing bad resulted from it. I must have forgot to torque it to spec a few months ago. It's good now though.
____________________________
-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
Nice that you have a private road to record 100mph speeds on
If it is possible to mount the camera on the outside of the car a roof or side panel shot of a drag pull would be sweet. Otherwise having a buddy on the side of the road shooting a drag launch from a hundred yards in front of you and filming you go by would give us some perspective of just how fast this beast is. Seeing your speedometer fly around was pretty impressive on it's own though.
Of course drag launches don't really show off all the benefits of your setup though. Getting some dyno charts will probably help convince any non-believers and get you nicely tuned at the same time
Great work and thanks for sharing.
____________________________
Nick - AWD turbo swapped USDM 7g Galant
3rd gear pulled like crazy, at what rpm do you reach the 28psi?
A log from last night shows 15 psi by 3500, 20 psi by 4000 and 28 psi by 4500.
I feel there's much room for improvement yet in the spool up time with a good tune, but the added torque from this set-up really gets the car moving quickly.
____________________________
-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
Na, Just kidding, you're my new hero.
I think they miss out on alot of really unique cars. Like this one for example. I would hope to see this in a magazine and hope that the compound turbo setup is uncommon enough to catch a magazines eye. This is the sortof shit magazines should make articles on, instead I see stuff on N/A Hondas with flashy interiors and a set of rims that are making it into Modified Mag.
