Faster is not just about power. Most time attack cars don't make HUGE power but they are verry responsive and make enought power to get up and go but not too much were traction is sacraficed. In a straight line the facors that dictate how fast you go are a lot less then the amount of factors when turns get thrown in the mix.
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Sean aka Slippi
Last edited by Defiant; 06-23-2009 at 12:06 AM.
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I can definately see this as the ultimate autox/RR setup. Spools like a small turbo with the power of a big turbo. Isn't this what we've all been looking for?
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11.514 on a 14b
10.77 on a GT35
Faster is not just about power. Most time attack cars don't make HUGE power but they are verry responsive and make enought power to get up and go but not too much were traction is sacraficed. In a straight line the facors that dictate how fast you go are a lot less then the amount of factors when turns get thrown in the mix.
Wait, you mean AREA UNDER THE [torque] CURVE means something? No way. That's impossible!
Faster is not just about power. Most time attack cars don't make HUGE power but they are verry responsive and make enought power to get up and go but not too much were traction is sacraficed. In a straight line the facors that dictate how fast you go are a lot less then the amount of factors when turns get thrown in the mix.
That all is basic known knowledge and goes without saying, its also implied by my very first comment about flattening the power curve. On a higher point it is still more of a showcase of ones ability to look outside the box opposed to doing the norm. I am 100% positive for the time and money spent building this setup that a comparable one could have been built for a fraction of the cost and in a fraction of the time.
But I'm sure that wasn't the sole purpose of this build. It was to take an existing idea from another platform and apply to our own in a way opening a new door for going beyond the typical. For that I give him a big.
That all is basic known knowledge and goes without saying, its also implied by my very first comment about flattening the power curve. On a higher point it is still more of a showcase of ones ability to look outside the box opposed to doing the norm. I am 100% positive for the time and money spent building this setup that a comparable one could have been built for a fraction of the cost and in a fraction of the time.
But I'm sure that wasn't the sole purpose of this build. It was to take an existing idea from another platform and apply to our own in a way opening a new door for going beyond the typical. For that I give him a big.
I don't know. I can get a 16g and a t4 60-1 VERY affordably. Only one oil feed line and custom return line (the other lines are already on the car). He didn't even need to buy an exhaust manifold flange . Just route/weld the exhaust of one turbo into the inlet of another and route/weld the first gate into that pipe and another gate off that pipe. You have to buy one gate for the 60-1 if you were going to run a stroker motor anyway. I'd say about the same material cost as a stroker kit alone; not including that 60-1 you'd buy for one. And probably about the same magnetude in skill to do vs. building a stroker, though a different skill set. And you endup with probably much more under the curve: the real goal of a stroker build.
. . . I'm not negating his skill here. He's done some great custom work! And his thought process is what really should be applauded. It's actually VERY simple well-thought-out simple . I.E., using the stock eshaust manifold simplifies so much. That's a pretty cunning move if you think about it.
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Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
only 500AWHP? that seems kinda fail for all that work, but it would make for a nice auto X car or RR with that quick spool
i wonder what turbos its running
I would call it very successful.
dynodynamics read low. multiply by 1.1-1.2 to get dynojet number.
their 97 octane is reported to be like our 93-94 octane.
600tq at 3800rpm is not failure.
the turbos used were mentioned to be 30r and 42r. cant confirm.
dont even know if its sequential, or compound setup. but I think its good data on how yummy a twin turbo could be.
I agree. The dynodynamics is the heartbreaker dyno. It's proven to read 18% lower than the dynojet, of which better matches HP from MPH/ET and weight calculations. 500whp / (100% - 18%) = 610whp . The car will trap speeds that go along with 600whp.
A 42r setup that makes 600ft-lbs of torque at 3800rpms is pure sex.
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Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
That all is basic known knowledge and goes without saying, its also implied by my very first comment about flattening the power curve. On a higher point it is still more of a showcase of ones ability to look outside the box opposed to doing the norm. I am 100% positive for the time and money spent building this setup that a comparable one could have been built for a fraction of the cost and in a fraction of the time.
But I'm sure that wasn't the sole purpose of this build. It was to take an existing idea from another platform and apply to our own in a way opening a new door for going beyond the typical. For that I give him a big.
Yeah exactly how much do you think he spent making this??? He made the manifold and the one turbo(maybe even both knowing paul) he already had.
Yeah exactly how much do you think he spent making this??? He made the manifold and the one turbo(maybe even both knowing paul) he already had.
Yup. I allready had both turbos and both wastegates (although I had to pay Justin to rebuild the 16G). So, I had to buy some flanges and some tubing. I have less invested in this than the price of a new 16G.
And so far it's been worth every penny spent and every minute of labor (because fabrication is fun anyway).
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-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
Well good luck Paul. I'd love to see some datalogs of a WOT 1500rpm +to see what you have for airflow.
You taking it to the Pink's test & tune and event the beginning of July?
Probably not taking it there for Pinks. I'm not registered to race, and if they're making spectators park in the grass, then I'm not going to bring it (it sits way too low this year). In all honesty, I'll probably end up riding up there with Brian and Kassie.
I should have some nice datalogs later on this week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bane3d
So did you drive it to work today or not???? How was it? Response, spool, etc...
d
Unfortunately, no. While waiting for the enamel to dry, I started drinking beer. And by the time I actually started working on the car, I didn't have enough ambition to finish it. Not to mention that I also didn't realize that I had no motor oil. But I did get the oil pan back on, as well as the t-case, the 16G, and the downpipe and wastegate. Just a few more parts to install, and then top off fluids and I'll have it out this afternoon.
And apparantly, my MAP sensor is sitting at my local UPS hub awaiting my signature, so I'll go pick that up this afternoon as well.
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-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
The oil pan thing is really starting to piss me off. The newer replacement is leaking too. The rails were a bit bent up and distorted, but I figured I could get it to seal. It's leaking from like 5 places and also onto my timing belt. I need to just bite the bullet and go with a brand new pan.
So now, I need to source out yet another oil pan and swap it out. This better be the last time I have to do this or I'll scream.
I did drive it to work this morning though. I got some GoPro footage playing around on some backroads. I'll share it a bit later today when I get home.
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-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
Last edited by 99gst_racer; 06-23-2009 at 10:49 AM.
Reason: typos
I'm going to try to fix the last pan. It sealed to the block perfectly - it just has that poor weld around the fitting. I just don't want to wait another week for another pan to show up.
On a positive note, I'm going to focus heavily on tuning this week and next week. It's pig rich right now and it's breaking up a bit after 7500 RPMs.
Next purchase will hopefully be a Hallman MBC so that I can start cranking the boost past 30 psi.
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-Paul Volk-
'99 GSX
'91 TSI
Yup. I allready had both turbos and both wastegates (although I had to pay Justin to rebuild the 16G). So, I had to buy some flanges and some tubing. I have less invested in this than the price of a new 16G.
And so far it's been worth every penny spent and every minute of labor (because fabrication is fun anyway).
I bought my Greddy 18g rebuilt off Justin last summer and I must say he did one hell of a job on the rebuild. It's still running strong and pulling hard.
I'm going to try to fix the last pan. It sealed to the block perfectly - it just has that poor weld around the fitting. I just don't want to wait another week for another pan to show up.
On a positive note, I'm going to focus heavily on tuning this week and next week. It's pig rich right now and it's breaking up a bit after 7500 RPMs.
Next purchase will hopefully be a Hallman MBC so that I can start cranking the boost past 30 psi.
First probs to You sir for an amazing setup and the know how and fabrication and everything it takes to rock the boat as hard as you have.
second i wanna say i just read every page of this Epic thread and between all the explanations and links and discussion and even arguments i have learned a shit load more about turbos than i ever did before!
First probs to You sir for an amazing setup and the know how and fabrication and everything it takes to rock the boat as hard as you have.
second i wanna say i just read every page of this Epic thread and between all the explanations and links and discussion and even arguments i have learned a shit load more about turbos than i ever did before!
THANK YOU.
and slippi thanks for the vid
Agreed! I haven't had the chance to read through EVERY page....YET. However, I will AWESOME work on this set up, Paul. YOU DESERVE every congratulatory comment that comes your way! And, as already stated...Thanks for that video Slippi. It was very informative. I want one of these set up SOO bad now. Ha.
It would seem you have sparked something of a revolution. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few people trying to do this them self in the near future. Hell, I would if I had the funds available.
It would seem you have sparked something of a revolution. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few people trying to do this them self in the near future. Hell, I would if I had the funds available.
Guys you must have missed the boat when looking at the pics and reading this thread. THIS IS NOT A EXPENSIVE THING TO DO!!! The reason you don't have see it more often is because it takes actually understand beyond this is a turbo that is a wastagte to do. It cost Paul like he said less then the price of a new 16g. Your telling me you couldn't afford to buy a 16g? Say you can't fabricate, which I can't either, all you do is get a local shop to make you a manifold stup like Pauls's to incorporate two turbos a smaller one feeding into a larger one and your set. To be honest if I dind't build my car to spool so fast by taking away a lot of rotating mass then I would look into this.
Not everyone is single you know. However when my wife finishes her schooling (about 11 months to go) and starts her career we should together be bringing in a six figure income. Until then however my family is living off my 28k or so a yr. So money gets tight at times when trying to mod your car. I wouldn't dream of taking something like this on without the parts and a grand in my pocket. (although I already have an externally gated 16g lol) Still my family comes before my car. So unlike some of you it's not as simple as living off romen noddles and saving every dime.
. Just route/weld the exhaust of one turbo into the inlet of another and route/weld the first gate into that pipe and another gate off that pipe. You have to buy one gate for the 60-1 if you were going to run a stroker motor anyway. I'd say about the same material cost as a stroker kit alone; not including that 60-1 you'd buy for one. And probably about the same magnetude in skill to do vs. building a stroker, though a different skill set. And you endup with probably much more under the curve: the real goal of a stroker build.
