Well what sounds like a mean street combo to me is a hx35 on a 2.3 stroker high CR motor with a cyclone intake manifold- I bet that would spool above 25psi below 3500rpm and scream all the way to 8 grand with the right cams/supporting mods, which would be nuts. lol
When my e316g comes off im installing a hx40 whenever i get the bolt on housing to run it. I know there will be plenty of turbo lag that I will want to make up for below 4k, so the cyclone is starting to seem more appealing with my current goals. As long as it can still pull some pretty good numbers on top end, and pull above 400awhp on pump gas then it will be worth it. I just dont want to deal with any butterfly runner issues with the cyclone, I want to put it on, and for it to work, and keep working with no maintenance, thats were the value will mainly be at for me.
The funny thing is, I actually had a cyclone not too long ago and I never got around to installing it because I didnt have the gaskets or the T25 mod to actuate it and I never put the effort in doing so, even though I should have, because it was real nice, polished and all... I ended up selling it thinking I was going to run a high end SMIM setup, but after realizing i dont need anything like that, nor want to dish out the kind of money in purchasing a good one, my goals lowered back down to Earthling levels of just having an affordable, reliable and decently quick setup. This is what re-sparked my interest in the cyclone.
____________________________
((Jay))
E316G - 6bolt/4bolt
2800lbs w/ driver
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Well what sounds like a mean street combo to me is a hx35 on a 2.3 stroker high CR motor with a cyclone intake manifold- I bet that would spool above 25psi below 3500rpm and scream all the way to 8 grand with the right cams/supporting mods, which would be nuts. lol
When my e316g comes off im installing a hx40 whenever i get the bolt on housing to run it. I know there will be plenty of turbo lag that I will want to make up for below 4k, so the cyclone is starting to seem more appealing with my current goals. As long as it can still pull some pretty good numbers on top end, and pull above 400awhp on pump gas then it will be worth it. I just dont want to deal with any butterfly runner issues with the cyclone, I want to put it on, and for it to work, and keep working with no maintenance, thats were the value will mainly be at for me.
The funny thing is, I actually had a cyclone not too long ago and I never got around to installing it because I didnt have the gaskets or the T25 mod to actuate it and I never put the effort in doing so, even though I should have, because it was real nice, polished and all... I ended up selling it thinking I was going to run a high end SMIM setup, but after realizing i dont need anything like that, nor want to dish out the kind of money in purchasing a good one, my goals lowered back down to Earthling levels of just having an affordable, reliable and decently quick setup. This is what re-sparked my interest in the cyclone.
JMF Race manifold or the JMF Race manifold...lol...i think you see where im goin with this. haha
____________________________
Joe Shuler
AIM: SBR T Pot
jws@slowboyracing.com
JMF Race manifold or the JMF Race manifold...lol...i think you see where im goin with this. haha
LoL, Well I already picked up this cyclone for cheap. The hx40 isnt goin on yet so well see how it does with the 16g at least. My friend has a jmf race mani laying around, so im sure he'll let me borrow his to go dyno the different between cyclone and jmf whenever the hx40 goes on. Only looking for 400awhp on 93oct which I feel I can pull off with a Hx40. I have a slew of supporting mods, kelford cams, and the ability to tune near 30psi on pump gas. But IF I do end up trying out my friends smim and if the jmf race over the cyclone proves a night and day difference worth 600 bucks then ill reconsider that manifold But honestly I am trying to finish my car and just be content as Im trying to somewhat get out of the game. Times are looking too tough ahead to continue enduring all my cash flow into the car if you know where im going with this.
Just to update a little: I recieved the original vacuum valve for the Cyclone and still doesn't work. It worked great during testing and a first few times on the car and then stopped functioning. I'm going to go the junkyard Monday probably and grab another fpr solenoid that could be the only other thing. the actuator on intake will close when vacuum is applied just fine, Jeff O. confirmed the coding, and tried the jdm vacuum can.
Also had the water pump go bad, so a perfect time to install my HKS 264/272 cam combo i've been staring at in the garage for almost a year. Also as I had predicted, the balance shaft belt was shredded and sitting pretty close to the timing belt. I'm sure it's been like that for awhile. I'm sure I lost a little power from installing it, but its definitely smoother. I can feel an all around power gain from 4500rpm+ and it pulls effortlessly past 7k with the cams. Goodbye stock a/t cams.
A few years ago, someone did an intake manifold test. I forgot the details, but they tested a JMF, Magnus, Venom, stock, and maybe a few others. Surprisingly, the Venom was a top performer IIRC.
A few years ago, someone did an intake manifold test. I forgot the details, but they tested a JMF, Magnus, Venom, stock, and maybe a few others. Surprisingly, the Venom was a top performer IIRC.
I'm sure if my power band was to 8k+, I would much benefit from a shorter runner SMIM. I also see a different trend coming up with plenum design similar to the style of the JMFab Drag SMIM, which a few companies seem to have went to. This is far different from the Venom style plenum, although it is very big, but notice how close to stock cc the old Magnus is and how many people use that.
Worst cams ever! . . . They have 244 duration (advertised) and the n/t cams have at least 252 duration on the intake cam. A/T cams also have the lowest lift offered by mitsu cams for all the 1g years.
____________________________
Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
Just to update a little: I recieved the original vacuum valve for the Cyclone and still doesn't work. It worked great during testing and a first few times on the car and then stopped functioning. I'm going to go the junkyard Monday probably and grab another fpr solenoid that could be the only other thing. the actuator on intake will close when vacuum is applied just fine, Jeff O. confirmed the coding, and tried the jdm vacuum can.
Also had the water pump go bad, so a perfect time to install my HKS 264/272 cam combo i've been staring at in the garage for almost a year. Also as I had predicted, the balance shaft belt was shredded and sitting pretty close to the timing belt. I'm sure it's been like that for awhile. I'm sure I lost a little power from installing it, but its definitely smoother. I can feel an all around power gain from 4500rpm+ and it pulls effortlessly past 7k with the cams. Goodbye stock a/t cams.
Balance shaft belt, what the hell is that for?
lol
Yea fix your cyclone so i can keep reading good stuff bout it!
Man i have a chance to pick up a venom for 100 bucks as well.. I thought the runners were longer but they obviously aren't Im also on a e3 16g but when i get my stroker build done i will be going hx35.. Im awd and have dsmlink so i can set up anitlag so i can have some torque off the line.. Im worried that the plenum being almost 3 times bigger than all the other tested will hurt me torque wise.. You think it is worth it
If i decide to go with this i can log both manifolds.. Im talking a stock 2g and a venom.. My buddy is also building an engine right now and he has the evo3 manifold.. Ill see if i can get my hands on that..
____________________________
-=John Whalen=-
WH1C w/ .55ar BEP
My shifter bushings on the actual shifter lever went to crap all of a sudden last night and there was so much slop in the shifter. Went to the jyard to find either a good shifter or the bushings themselves. They only had 2 1gs, one was auto and the other 5spd already had the shifter missing. I was able to find the bushings in a newer hyundai that worked perfect and are in good shape.
I was wanting to pick up another FPR solenoid, but no luck there unfortunately, If anyone has a spare let me know. Obviously not looking to pay more than single digit dollar figure shipped
How often did these go bad? I mean I'm sure there are only a few 1gs which probably still have the fpr solenoid functional on the regulator.
So until I get a good fpr solenoid, i'm at a standstill with getting it to function properly.
Is there any quick way to test the solenoid I have? It doesn't seem to be closing off vacuum if I hold my finger around the solenoid when the rpm is activated when testing.
I found some old notes the other day on cyclone. these numbers are from my 57trim turbo. the 1st column is 1g extrude honed, second is cyclone. The numbers are from g-tech which read low. On dynojet it made 411HP/410TQ at 22-23psi
RPM =1G =cyclone
4000=202=247
4500=290=292
5000=314=325
5500=341=343
6000=366=367
6500=353=351
7000=319=308
keep in mind this is against a extrude honed 1g Vs. stock unported cyclone. also the biggest gains are seen from 2500-3500rpm. I just wasnt recording numbers at those rpms. cyclone is a hell of a piece if you ask me.
^^^ That's pretty impressive results there. Does anyone have any numbers of a cyclone agains a non extrude hone intake? I'm sure extrude honing helps that 1g manifold do it's job better up top. Extrude hone cyclone, anyone?
____________________________
Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
^^^ That's pretty impressive results there. Does anyone have any numbers of a cyclone agains a non extrude hone intake? I'm sure extrude honing helps that 1g manifold do it's job better up top. Extrude hone cyclone, anyone?
Yeah i'm sure an EH'd Cyclone would be pretty impressive all the way around.
I'm also curious about results and I know you are too about what Dr. Turbo did by adding some additional plenum to one? He already said he isn't doing any parts swapping. Like I said in that thread, I would think there would be some advantages of increasing plenum size from ~1200cc to ~16-1800cc without completely altering the cars manners by going with like 4000cc. I'd even like to see results done on a standard 1g IM
His screen name is highbooost. MY opinion: I'll not call him 'Dr Turbo' until he displays highly detailed compressor or turbine theory explanation and understanding. Claiming to beat a z06 on the intarweb doesn't count.
Also, my opinion is that the manifolds that show an increase in performance from an increase in plenum volume are really seeing the benefits from moving the throttlebody (or plenum inlet) farther away from the runners; thus balancing the flow more and decreasing the angle the air has to turn to enter the runner mouths. If you think about it, when at WOT, the entire intake track adds volume to the plenum. How can a few CCs more in 'plenum volume' at the plenum vs. the whole volume of the intercooler piping actually help enough to be noticable? It's such a small percentage difference.
____________________________
Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
This is a dyno chart of a fp green powered dsm with stock cams and intake manifold in the blue. Then they swapped out just the intake manifold to an extrude honed intake manifold and still left the stock cams in, that is the red line. At 5000rpm and over is where the extrude hone process makes a difference in power. At 7000rpm the horsepower is up by almost 70hp and the torque is up by 50ft/lb... I'm not trying to argue, but the idea that it made close to the same amount of power as a even stock 1g intake manifold at over 5000rpm on a G-TECH is worthless.... And this is a 1g extrude honed intake that the stock cyclone is being compared too... The cyclone is GREAT and I personally think it ROCKS... But i DO NOT believe it can hold a candle to even a stock 1g intake manifold at over 5000rpm.. The numbers at the bottom between the 1g extrude hone vs the cyclone at the same rpm being that close also are not justified when he made well over 400hp on real a dyno.. Also wanted to add that the G-TECH is good at calculating times and is close at guessing a quarter mile time, but they almost always have the trap speed wrong, and that is a lot when it comes to top end from intake manifolds being tested.. I am not trying to bash, I am pointing out what should be obvious..
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94awdcoupe
I found some old notes the other day on cyclone. these numbers are from my 57trim turbo. the 1st column is 1g extrude honed, second is cyclone. The numbers are from g-tech which read low. On dynojet it made 411HP/410TQ at 22-23psi
RPM =1G =cyclone
4000=202=247
4500=290=292
5000=314=325
5500=341=343
6000=366=367
6500=353=351
7000=319=308
keep in mind this is against a extrude honed 1g Vs. stock unported cyclone. also the biggest gains are seen from 2500-3500rpm. I just wasnt recording numbers at those rpms. cyclone is a hell of a piece if you ask me.
Well, that makes sense. The whole point of the cyclone manifold is to do what you say it does. Provide power under 5K. We're all looking at the difference below 5K . That is exactly where the cyclone beat out the extrude honed manifold in the info provided by 94awdcoup. The extrude honed manifold matched the stock 1g up to 5K. The question is what can be done to help the cyclone perform over 5K like a 1g intake manifold???. . .
Thank you for that info. Glad to see some comparison of the extrude honeds vs. stock 1g intake manifold.
Where is the simple test of the 1g intake vs. the cyclone?????
____________________________
Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
Idk, the cfm difference is minoot from what I recall, I would think the cyclone would be better midrange and low end and then be similar to a stock unported 1g up top.
The 1g should only barely out perform it up top, and its not like the cyclone cant be ported out some.
I remember there was a thread here a long time ago were the guy with the white 2g gained 40ft/lbs down low from switching to the cyclone without loosing anything up top, but I dont know if he was coming from a stock 1g or 2g mani, and Ido know that he self ported his cyclone.
Idk, the cfm difference is minoot from what I recall, I would think the cyclone would be better midrange and low end and then be similar to a stock unported 1g up top.
The 1g should only barely out perform it up top, and its not like the cyclone cant be ported out some.
I remember there was a thread here a long time ago were the guy with the white 2g gained 40ft/lbs down low from switching to the cyclone without loosing anything up top, but I dont know if he was coming from a stock 1g or 2g mani, and Ido know that he self ported his cyclone.
Well the cyclone as far as I know is made for a small intake port 2g head.. If he did gain 40ft/lb for torque from the manifold swap. He would of had to have come from the stock 2g intake manifold because bolting a 1g intake manifold to a 2g head will just lose power.. It further makes sense that he gained 40ft/lb of torque at the low end and then did not lose any top end because the 2g intake manifold is known not to flow as well as a 1g intake manifold up top in the first place... I think this cyclone intake manifold should blow away a stock 2g intake manifold in the low end and match its performance in the top end for sure... But it is known that the smaller ports do not flow up top anywhere near like the 1g intake manifold and head combo.. Now if you removed enough material to make the cyclone intake manifold match a 1g head but it still had a taper to the head flange, and then removed enough material to make the runners seems shorter because of the increased diameter, then you will have a really cool cyclone... But this does require a lot of time invested... Now if you wanted to take it one step further, you can tapper the runners, increase the internal volume through removal of material and then at then end finish it up with high grit sand paper and polishing compound inside by hand, this should give you close to extrude honing results.. Or if you could simply open up any intake manifold and then use a very high temp paint inside of the intake manifold, this will make the surface as smooth as the paint, which is very smooth.. These are just a few cheap ideas that work..
Well the cyclone as far as I know is made for a small intake port 2g head..
It fits a 1g head. You may be thinking of the evo3 IM. I've seen "94awdcoupe" use epoxy to fill the runners to match up with a 2g head though
Quote:
Originally Posted by 91-gsx
But i DO NOT believe it can hold a candle to even a stock 1g intake manifold at over 5000rpm
From someone who has ran both intakes in the past month, this statement is so untrue and you have nothing but what you "believe" to rely on. If my 1g IM creamed the Cyclone up top, it would already be back on the car.
It fits a 1g head. You may be thinking of the evo3 IM. I've seen "94awdcoupe" use epoxy to fill the runners to match up with a 2g head though
I did not know that the cyclone intake manifold fit 1g head intake ports, so I am sorry that I said that a stock cyclone intake manifold would not hold a candle to a stock 1g intake manifold. It should do that and better, if ported correctly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toofast82
From someone who has ran both intakes in the past month, this statement is so untrue and you have nothing but what you "believe" to rely on. If my 1g IM creamed the Cyclone up top, it would already be back on the car.
I guess what I was trying to get as is, through the statements that people have made about the stock cyclone intake manifold and the stock 1g intake manifold. I have come to the same conclusion as all of you, and that is that the stock cyclone intake manifold should be close to a 1g intake manifold in the top end, but greatly out performs it in the bottom end. But as this data shows at the bottom of this post via the G-TECH, the 1g extrude honed intake manifold shows an 11hp difference from a stock cyclone intake manifold at 7000rpm... This is where things go sour for me with this data... I have already posted a dyno graph showing a close to 70hp and 50ft/lb of torque gain at 7000rpm going to an extrude honed intake manifold.. This should be a greater difference when it comes to a 1g extrude honed intake manifold compared to a stock cyclone intake manifold.. This data does not do a properly opened up 1g intake manifold justice in my opinion, and through collected statements on this thread and others, and through the only actual dyno graph to illustrate what I am talking about.. I am not here to prove anybody wrong, I just think other options that have been proven to work should not be brushed aside with bunk data.. Some of the fastest cars on this forum and others run a 1g extrude honed intake manifold with record setting numbers and times... For example, this 16g powered car that has the highest torque and horsepower that I have seen with a mostly stock internal engine; http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/151887256-post1.html
I am not saying he made all that power from the extrude honed 1g intake manifold, but it obviously was not holding him back with that much power and torque being created.. But we would all consider a stock intake manifold or a cyclone intake manifold, a top end dampener on the same setup..
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94awdcoupe
I found some old notes the other day on cyclone. these numbers are from my 57trim turbo. the 1st column is 1g extrude honed, second is cyclone. The numbers are from g-tech which read low. On dynojet it made 411HP/410TQ at 22-23psi
RPM =1G =cyclone
4000=202=247
4500=290=292
5000=314=325
5500=341=343
6000=366=367
6500=353=351
7000=319=308
keep in mind this is against a extrude honed 1g Vs. stock unported cyclone. also the biggest gains are seen from 2500-3500rpm. I just wasnt recording numbers at those rpms. cyclone is a hell of a piece if you ask me.
Well, the data is the data. If the Gtech is off with the extrude honed 1g intake manifold installed, it is also off with the cyclone intake manifold installed. So another way to look at this is that a cyclone provides more topend power, since power isn't down as much as a 1g intake manifold vs. an extrude honed manifold.
I don't know if that is true. But the cyclone intake manifold DOES have radiused entry to the runners and there may be 1 or 2 other differences that could cause better topend flow. That's why I wish there were some direct comparisons of a 1g (untouched) vs. cyclone.
____________________________
Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
The only thing that gets me is that the cyclone has been around for so long. And all I have ever heard was that they were pointless without the jdm ecu. But even at that...nobody has ever seemed to use them and make a good bit of power with them. With so many DSMers trying/doing whatever is cheapest to make good power...why hasnt there been more with thiis intake manifold....there has to be a reason.
There ARE people whove made serious power with them 600whp. Stock 2g exhaust manifold with an adapter for a gt35r. 2g head.
This it the perfect example of several morons not getting it right and blaming the product not the user. Then the herd reads and repeats. If it flows 1-2cfm less than a 1g intake manifold then why wouldn't it perform about the same up top? Yes there's more to an intake manifold than cfm, and the cyclone has better runner mouths, and larger plenum for a better angle of entry, and it's easy to open it up to port like an extrude hone job.
____________________________
Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
There ARE people whove made serious power with them 600whp. Stock 2g exhaust manifold with an adapter for a gt35r. 2g head.
This it the perfect example of several morons not getting it right and blaming the product not the user. Then the herd reads and repeats. If it flows 1-2cfm less than a 1g intake manifold then why wouldn't it perform about the same up top? Yes there's more to an intake manifold than cfm, and the cyclone has better runner mouths, and larger plenum for a better angle of entry, and it's easy to open it up to port like an extrude hone job.
Nice link and look at that usable/streetable powerband without it being extude honed, too! There is definitely a nice smooth entry into the runners unlike the 1g IM. The topend performing worse is a myth. Like you said, 1-2cfm is not going to make any noticable difference. Everyone keeps saying its better down low, which is obviously true, but its midrange also seems to outperform the 1g as well.
Of the not-so many people that have these properly functioning on their car, I've not seen one of them complain and put their 1g IM back on.
Well, the data is the data. If the Gtech is off with the extrude honed 1g intake manifold installed, it is also off with the cyclone intake manifold installed. So another way to look at this is that a cyclone provides more topend power, since power isn't down as much as a 1g intake manifold vs. an extrude honed manifold.
I don't know if that is true. But the cyclone intake manifold DOES have radiused entry to the runners and there may be 1 or 2 other differences that could cause better topend flow. That's why I wish there were some direct comparisons of a 1g (untouched) vs. cyclone.
I do not agree. This data is not adding up, so to me it is not reliable enough to make half the assumptions people are making on here. What your pretty much saying is that if the data is wrong, but you still use it, then the cyclone should flow even more then a stock 1g intake manifold... What your also saying is that proof of a 70hp increase at 7000rpm going to a extrude hone intake through a real dyno can now be somehow related to this data that you G-TECHED.... So sense an extrude hone showed PROOF of a 70hp and 50ft/lb of torque gain over the stock manifold. And it did not show that type of improvement over a cyclone intake manifold in a set of numbers off a website from a cheap and proven not to be dependable device in the way it is being used... SO let me cut it down even further... You gain 70hp from the stock intake manifold to a extrude hone intake manifold, this has been PROVEN. but you only gain 11hp going from a cyclone to an extrude honed intake manifold, NOT PROVEN...
This is a great manifold like I have said over and over.... But people are extrapolating way too much from a set of numbers, and even when people say they won't, they throw those numbers in to prove their point...
EDIT: So if we use the "data" via the G-TECH. The extrude hone intake manifold only offers an 11hp gain over the cyclone intake manifold and a 70hp gain over the stock intake manifold. So this must mean a cyclone makes almost 60hp over the stock intake manifold in the top end.... NO FREAKING WAY GUYS!
So sense an extrude hone showed PROOF of a 70hp and 50ft/lb of torque gain over the stock manifold. You gain 70hp from the stock intake manifold to a extrude hone intake manifold, this has been PROVEN. but you only gain 11hp going from a cyclone to an extrude honed intake manifold, NOT PROVEN...
An extrude honed 1g is NOT proven to add 70hp on EVERY setup. Most companies that perform this process report ~20-25hp.
Also that HUGE dip in power in your graph right before 7k on the stock one is very suspicious and not natural. Looks like something went wrong there. That is where you're seeing the 70hp gain. Nobody is arguing that the Extrude process is worth something when done on whichever intake. The thead I posted a few up with the hand ported cyclone seems pretty realistic with a slight gain in upper power due to the porting. Without it, they would pretty much be about the same in the high rpm.
Amen. If extrude honing made that much power every time, then it's likely it would be employed on every setup, instead of a real SMIM upgrade. No way smoothing the manifold runners and enlarging the plenum so slightly makes 70whp regularly.
More likely it makes about 11-20whp more. The cyclone intake flows 1-2cfm less than the stock 1g manifold (a flowbench varies this much for random untouched 1g intake manifolds). So the extrude hone process helped 94awdcoup about 11hp vs. if he ran that same 1g manifold without extrude honing. That's what extrude honing realistically does on a common setup. Here's a more realistic test done. It provides about 3.6% more cfm through the head. WOW! 94awdcoup's cyclone topend results: 319whp / 308whp = 1.036 . The cyclone intake manifold flows as much as a 1g intake manifold uptop.
The biggest promotor of extrude honing, RRE, doesnt' even have that option mentioned on there website anymore. They now have the Magnus SMIM as an upgrade only.
. . . Back to the subject. I wonder if the reason the cyclone manifold flows as low as a 1g intake manifold up top because of the runner merging at the entrance to the head. Having 2 runners merge into one and having a longer runner with out-of-wack harmonics at redline HAS to degrade pulsed flow. This probably cances out the better plenum design and radiused entry to the runners. Or it would be better to say that mitsu chose to upgrade the runner mouths and plenum for the cyclone so that it flows as well up top as a 1g intake manifold and, of course still prvide that MUCH better low end flow.
A cyclone modified to ONLY flow well up top could be an easy job. It could flow as well as a 1g intake down low and flow quite a bit better up top. Sealing the long runners from the head ports and blending the merge to make it look like the long runner was never there to the head could provide alot of total topend flow. I'd be interested in doing other things to the short runner entry to encourage higher flow. Also getting through the runners with a grinder is rather easy. So you can get the 3.6% increase that extrude hone provides with a diegrinder. That added to encouraging better flow to the short runner mouths, and I can see a cyclone manifold out performing a 1g manifold down low and up top for very little invested.
____________________________
Matt
dd '90 GST, Holset H1C
Last edited by dsm-onster; 09-01-2009 at 03:09 PM.
My thoughts are extrude honing is worth 20hp tops. No way it could make 50 or 70 hp. Dave B tested extrude hone evo 8 manifold and it made no more power than stock one so he doesnt sell the extrude hone process for evo manifolds.
G-tech is good data. It works like any other dyno. perfect for back to back measurements. Anyone who quotes MPH track times are off doesnt know how things work. Tracks average last 200 ft to give you trap speed. G-tech does not. so obviously there is going to be some differences in their measuring trap speed. But that in no way faults its ability to measure g- force and rpm and calculate hp from those figures.
the cyclone from what I have seen is an improvement over 1g manifold. there is no top end flow loss. local here had a 14b powered 2g that was hitting 150mph on a stock 6bolt block. next weekend he ran again but with 1 sole change the cyclone intake. the car then topped out at 165mph.
The most noticeable increase in torque from cyclone comes from performance on highway. no dyno data would ever show this because people dont dyno their car in 5th loaded at highway speed. the torque increase between 4000-5000rpm is nuts.
i dont know whay there is a debate. even if there is a small loss in top end the gains everywhere else are just plain worth it.
My thoughts are extrude honing is worth 20hp tops. No way it could make 50 or 70 hp. Dave B tested extrude hone evo 8 manifold and it made no more power than stock one so he doesnt sell the extrude hone process for evo manifolds.
G-tech is good data. It works like any other dyno. perfect for back to back measurements. Anyone who quotes MPH track times are off doesnt know how things work. Tracks average last 200 ft to give you trap speed. G-tech does not. so obviously there is going to be some differences in their measuring trap speed. But that in no way faults its ability to measure g- force and rpm and calculate hp from those figures.
the cyclone from what I have seen is an improvement over 1g manifold. there is no top end flow loss. local here had a 14b powered 2g that was hitting 150mph on a stock 6bolt block. next weekend he ran again but with 1 sole change the cyclone intake. the car then topped out at 165mph.
The most noticeable increase in torque from cyclone comes from performance on highway. no dyno data would ever show this because people dont dyno their car in 5th loaded at highway speed. the torque increase between 4000-5000rpm is nuts.
i dont know whay there is a debate. even if there is a small loss in top end the gains everywhere else are just plain worth it.
I completely agree. There really shouldn't be a debate with how cheap these manifolds can be found and with what they offer. Im interested to try it out, 94awdcoup made a lot of power with it, more than what most cyclone owners will ever make, so it being looked at as a restriction is a farce.
Edit: I know your running the cyclone on shredder, but are you running it the blue evo too? Do you think the results with the cyclone were amplified since for the yellow car you made it work with the 2g head? Thanks.
____________________________
((Jay))
E316G - 6bolt/4bolt
2800lbs w/ driver
Last edited by Black_Bullet; 09-01-2009 at 08:31 PM.
But honestly I am trying to finish my car and just be content as Im trying to somewhat get out of the game. Times are looking too tough ahead to continue enduring all my cash flow into the car if you know where im going with this.
Worst cams ever! . . . They have 244 duration (advertised) and the n/t cams have at least 252 duration on the intake cam. A/T cams also have the lowest lift offered by mitsu cams for all the 1g years.
... But i DO NOT believe it can hold a candle to even a stock 1g intake manifold at over 5000rpm.. The numbers at the bottom between the 1g extrude hone vs the cyclone at the same rpm being that close also are not justified when he made well over 400hp on real a dyno.. Also wanted to add that the G-TECH is good at calculating times and is close at guessing a quarter mile time, but they almost always have the trap speed wrong, and that is a lot when it comes to top end from intake manifolds being tested.. I am not trying to bash, I am pointing out what should be obvious.. 
but you only gain 11hp going from a cyclone to an extrude honed intake manifold, NOT PROVEN... 
. The cyclone intake manifold flows as much as a 1g intake manifold uptop.
