After drilling my valve cover for an 8 and 6 AN set of fittings, is was working on cleaning it out when i remembered a guy who had all the little tabs holding his valve cover baffle in break off and ruin his motor.
Has anyone just straight pulled it from square one when doing a large PCV/breather system?
I would like to take it out for piece of mined and leave it out. But honestly with the drilling and what not that was done for the AN fittings, I will be removing it to clean under it either way.
Then is just becomes a matter of welding tabs back on to hold it, or leave it out.
Anyone with any intelegent input on this from experience? Or anyone know the exact purpose Mitsubishi installed it for?
Last edited by Defiant; 01-18-2009 at 05:55 AM.
Reason: Trying to make you look more intelegent.
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I have talked to a few people who took them completely off. The only bad thing with it is more oil can escape out of the valve cover. When I do mine they will be staying out.
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Pat...AKA Project Pat
I removed my baffle on an old valve cover to add larger breather lines also, I found out that a lot more oil would make its way into the lines and would fill up my catch can a lot faster. You could try removing the stock baffle and fabricate a new baffle that works around your breather lines if they interfere.
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Morgan
My car drinks METH ☠
Yea, my new breather lines are below the baffle anyway. I wanted them there for a the exact reason of not filling the baffle area with toomuch large pieces of dril shavings. BUt all in all i'm not trusting a new engine to something i cannot see as clean.
I also think that by re-welding the tabs on they will be weaker than factory because it's a cast material that's been exposed to hydrocarbons and oil (not to mntion multiple heat cycles it's whole life.
I don't mind emptying the can more often as i'm biulding a really nice one for myself
I'll post pics when i throw it all on. I've even got the stock pcv valve safety wired into the -6 line for the NEW pcv system(there will be 2 cans, but most likely linked with one way valves.
BTW...anyone ever head of "check ball fittings' in aeroquipstyle stuff tht NOS makes? My friends fuel systemn builder told thim the "Y" junction on his dual wallys had check valves in them so one pump can't over run the other... he and I are both wondering how much truth there is to this (edit the "Y" fitting is built by NOS )
If you are drilling and welding in the bung's I would highly suggest taking the valve cover apart. Hell I would probly fab up some thin aluminum and tack in on in a few places to act as a new baffle.
Inside those cams are turnin and squirtin at 4krpm+
Do you have a drain setup back to your oilpan? I see it a lot on honda's but not often on anything else.
Whats better than a baffle in the valve cover and check valve is a well baffled breather tank, something that flows the hot oil/exhaust/air combo back into oil so it can drain back through the bottom of the container-to the oil pan.
How much blowby some honda engines have 500hp+ is insane.
I would not re-route it back to the oil pan, have you seen some of the stuff that comes out of there? Let alone it get's moisture in it, and if your draining moisture into your oil pan it's acting against the characteristics of the oil and potentially washing the bearings instead of lubricating them. Now I'm not saying that it's going to be a huge issue, but personally, I wouldn't risk it.
Glenn, I just ordered my -10AN fittings for when i get my ass up there. I've heard with the bigger lines and no baffle, not as much oil will be getting into them, as compared to a baffle-less stock lined setup. Obviously, with the baffles installed, will still result in the least amount of oil getting by, and is probably overall better, but not sure how big of a deal it is. We can try it out, it's not like it's hard to take the VC off, if we don't like it, just grab a baffle and throw it back in! Anyway, I think i'll just drill mine out before i bring it up, sound good?
Cool, well, i'm taking them out anyway, mainly because the valve cover has been stressed and i don't trust those tabs.. I may use some sort of screw or MAYBE reweld them in, but if it's for the sake of oil return i feel i should do it.
I just don't trust those stock keepers at all after seeing that one post.. Where both my breathers are now i would have to make a custom baffle for them anyway. I wasn't really too worried about in honestly. I remember back in the small block ford and chevy days a LOT of the aftermarket VC's didnt' have baffles in them....but i'd rather chance my welds holding than have them litle stock nubbins break off from the stresses of drilling and welding fittings in
EDIT: well i just ook my few last waking moments to cut the baffles out..and MY GOD even after 3 good washings there was still so many metal shvings in there i'm glad i never put it on a running engine!
I've got 2VC, so i might test "no baffle" for a while.. i studued how it "directed oil" nd didn't see too much of importance really.. nonthing was in line with any oil returns and only very few cam caps were "covered"
I personally have never seen the stock keepers ever fail in the valve cover before. I don't see why you would need to be paranoid about something like that. There are a thousand other (more likely) ways your DSM can leave you on the side of the road than that.
As for the baffles, I would leave them in if you are driving the car on the street mostly. I fill up my catch can fairly quickly even with the baffles intact. The amount of blowby/condensation I have is enough to fill the can in less than a week of street driving at my HP level. I can't imagine if the baffles weren't there.
Removing the baffles will not make the vent that much more efficient either. Pressure will always look for the path of least resistance to escape, and it will have no trouble finding the catch can.
JeffGST..the reason i removed them was because some one posted on here about all those keeperes popping off and ending up ruining his motor.
He had pics of these little round thingsin his oil pan on teardown that ended up being the keepers for the baffles...some said that they have been known to snap/pop off *shrugs* better safe than sorry. plus after removing it, the amount of metal found in there is more than i think anyone would let me just oss into their engine for sure!
now to straighten it back out and come up with a way to put it back in!
Hey Glenn, In response to the Check ball one way valves.
The best thing I can say about them is they are rebuildable. And will not fail due to high heat and chemical attacks, aka oil.
My company uses All swagelok Fittings and check valves for our Offshore Hose reels. These systems are running upwards of 3k psi in hydraulic lines and air lines depending on the model of hose reel. I have personaly seen the Aeroquip and Swagelok check valves tested side by side on Baton chart Recorder.(dont know its exact name) It basicly tests hydraulic lines for flow back and pressure along with any leaks no matter how small, altho they do cost like 75$ each.
You can change the spring rates in these check valves for the PSI ratings you need them to Crack open, Full open and seat pressure. Some models even have mesh screens in them to collect any debris that maybe traveling through them. I see this as inshurance Incase the sping ever fails and breaks apart.
IF I was going moneys no object build I would use them Over ANY PCV or plastic viton seal check valve.
kinda went off there. O well...
well, we took his apart and what was supposed to be check valves were nothing more than plain old fittings. He got lied to by a local shop adn charged for parts he didn't get (surprise surprise from this shop)
we're building him a fuel cell and when we removed his dual wally setup we checked every part agaisnt my earls/and aeroquip catalogs and found NOTHING with acheck valve that looked like anything in his fuel system...go figure
But since his has made over 700HP on that setup i think i'm going to take his setup as trade on his cell''s labor and also use his fittings from rail to tank. (he's relacing it all anyway, he's got more loot than me )
it just sounded fishy and of course it was!
I'll have to look into the check valves you're talking about..wht's their "crack pressure"?
Ok, Glenn Sorry for the delay. Been a busy week so far at work.
I was wrong when I told you about the aeroquip check valves. Im shure they make them, But like you I have yet to find them in the couple hundred pages of literature we have floating around the office.
Anyways I found the Check valve demo I had laying in my desk today and its made by "Kepner Products" Here Is a link to one of their check valves, Its identical to the one im holding in my hand.
Altho Im shure the Specs are wildly different as ours are used in Fluid environments at over 3k psi.
But this should get you in the ball park.
Gl, buddie
Edit: Found the Eaton aka Aeroquip check valve, The main page is located Here.
Your Body style is located Here, This is a Direct link to the PDF file.
Prices from these 2 companys will vary greatly. I would recomend you call them with part numbers and work out the fine details, sutch as Oring types for various fuels and the correct cracking pressures you may need. They will also beable to help you find the manifold to mount the 2 valves needed to a duel FP setup.
Second edit:
So I chatted with my Guy that plumbs all of our reels. He tells me that to do this properly. you would need 2 check valves and one T fitting.
Basicly FP, Check valve,(for both Pumps) then the T fitting. (Duh )
He also recommends the Lowest cracking pressure you can get that will Reliably Reseal, under a no pressure setting. aka 1-5psi. He tells me we run a 5psi crack on our 3k psi lines.
And that If you go with Swagelok check valves that you must use Swagelok fittings. Standard AN or NPT wont work as it will not seal.
Aeroquip aka Eaton or Kepner does not use anything special and can be configured in either AN or NPT.
The "keepers" on your valve cover are rivets (welded to the valve cover, and "smushed" over the baffle sheet). Almost impossible for them to come off your valve cover.
Leave your baffle as is, and make stand offs for your -10 bungs on your valve cover. Basically, cut AROUND the upraised portion of the valve cover where the PCV and crankcase ports are, and weld sheet metal OVER them to enlarge the hole over the top of your valve cover. that way, you don't have to worry about enlarging the OEM ports, and having to remove the baffle.
Check the picture, basically cut out the red portions and weld a sheet metal "dome" over them, then attach the bung to the end of the dome.
too late for that on this end.. my VCs done, baffles gone, _an fittings installed.. Thanks for the info though, but i still wouldn't se how you'd get the shavings out.. I washed mine 3 times with brake kleen and dish soap and there wa still way more metal than i'd let you throw in any motor i had anything to do with.
i wish i had pics, but you can't get it clean clean with the baffles in there unles you've got a scope camera to inspect it with
^^ I guess if you trust it that's cool, but wiothout visual confirmation i won't chance it after seeing what was under mmy baffles.
I wasn't trying to sound like a d!ck earlier i was just in a hurry posting super fast, as i am now..some one else is here and i have to dig up coil packs for anothe rmember
Remove baffling, 2 -12 or -10 an lines to a vented catchcan, with a -6 or -8 drainback to pan. I would run a drainback for sure. Or else you may get this thing filling with oil during a pass depending on how much power your making.
I used -6 because the PCV valve could be fitted into it neatly and safety wired in for an airtight seal. the -8 is for the one fed from the intake to turbo tube and i wanted it as big as i could get it and I had a bunch of -8 fittings and line on hand, so i was using what i had.
Plus the general thought of when the manifold is under vacume having lless volume in the PCV system hoses hsould increase the amount of vacum getting t0o the VC due to less overall volume of the ID
Boosted98.. that's one sexy lookin valve cover and wire coiver combo kudos
Plus the general thought of when the manifold is under vacume having lless volume in the PCV system hoses hsould increase the amount of vacum getting t0o the VC due to less overall volume of the ID
Great idea! However, what you did still sounds like it would be legal since its still working how it was intended to from factory. When a lot of guys do this they don't have any vac pulling out vapors.
I think since you removed the baffles your going to have a lot of problems with excess oil going though the system.
I notice alot of guys just run vented can's with no vac assist and i guess thats why they go with the bigger lines since there is no assist to get the pressure out, the engine has to push it out on its own.
Having line and fittings around is always a bonus!
I also found that putting the baffles back in isn't hard at all either. I had to clean the little nubbins that were left really good but i was able to get the baffle re-stuck ona junk VC my friend has (it's cracked BAD) so i ground some off and cleaned and re-welded and it seems like it should hold up since they passed the hammer test. But i'm still unsure aboutwhat i'm going to do with mine. I have a perfectly good one on there in the meantime while i decide...plus i want to get this one poiwdercoated before it goes back on, so that buys me some deciding time as well
Maybe i'll only run Vac to the PCV setup and let the other one just vent on it's own since it's a larger fitting. My engine bay is cramped enough as it is, so all of thisis going to be waiting on me to move the battery either under the front fender or down by the trans. I won't put it in back since i'm FWD, it would be useless there.
Done properly? Your PCV line is completely unhooked
j/k, looks good. I'm currently just running -6 as that mated to the factory fitting pretty well. One question is, how would one know when his current setup is becoming a choke point, and he should upgrade the size of his lines going from the VC to the intake? I'm getting to the point where I should be making decent power, but don't want to mod my valve cover to support larger lines unless I know the current -6 setup has reached it's limit.
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Brandon
91 AWD, Built 2.0, 2g Head, S362, E85
Does anybody have any pictures from the under side of the valve cover after installing the -10 fittings? It seems like if you place them over top of the existing spots about half of the fitting will be below the baffle and the other half would be above.
Is that how you guys the kept the baffles are running it?
Also on the back side did anybody grind away some material so the fitting would sit flat?
Also if anybody has more pictures that'd be much appreciated!
I'm just trying to do everything I can myself so when I bring it to my local shop all they have to do is weld on the fittings for me.
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95 GSX: Stock 6 bolt
Best et: 10.8
Best mph: 140
Anyway, I think i'll just drill mine out before i bring it up, sound good?
