Hypergound wires?!??

[DSM BLUE TURBO]

Okay...I saw these awhile back.. A LONG LONG LONG TIME AGO.. and of course the advertisement looks really dumb...,"New Hyperground wires give you horsepower" Didn't so too amazing. But I was reading Import Tuner and they tested it, saying it makes power. I did some more searches around then net, specifically xs engineering, and they claim it makes power as well. Also said something about depending where you ground the wires, the more power you'll gain. Anyone have any opinions on this? Anyone try it and find a good place to ground the wires? Or is it all BS.

 

[nine5raptor]

import tuners I believe had the dyno sheets right in the mag

 

[nowayout]

You can make your own kit at a much more reasonable price and look just as good.

I look like it will hp.

I my own opinion it's more of an idividual case and how bad you ground if for the electrical system in your car.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

I would not imagine any hp from it but its not a bad idea, a surprising amount of #### can occur from bad grounds.

for the money theres easier power....but i kinda want it neways. I have had issues with starting my car and #### from grounds.

 

[Wikkedson]

Yeah they gained like 7hp on an RX7 with the ground wires. Would be worth a try.

 

[VBGSX]

I read the ad also. Like the ad said, it depends on where you connect the leads. The only way to see if you've done it right and gained power, is to dyno it. You would have to keep dynoing it. Each time swapping where you connected the leads, to finally come up with the proper spots that make the most power. You could end up spending a ton of money on the wires and then a lot more finding out where the best spots to connect them are.
In the end, it's up to the buyer. If you think it's worth it to you, then go for it.

 

[sleepinGSX]

I made my own the other day, spent like 5 bucks, an they look great i think. I replaced most of the oem cables, and grounded the TB, not sure what else i should groudn, im thinkin the motor it self but im not sure were.

 

[lancer560]

i put them on my lancer oz i gain 4.2 hp on gtec pro.but they are worth it they only cost $98.95.but if you do buy them get the sun automotive ones the same ones that were on the importtuner.Go to this website this is were i got my gtec and groundwires.www.group5motorsport.com

 

[DrZiplok]

Grounding wires will not "make power".

If your engine ground is bad, fixing it will improve:

- Sensor readings.
- Spark

Better sensor readings means the ECU will have a better idea of what your engine's doing, and it will use fuel map and correction entries that actually suit the state of the engine (specifically here we're talking about things like temperature correction).

Fixing the engine ground *can* improve your spark, if your coils are not grounded to the head in the first place. Typically you will see a slightly hotter spark (more spark current) and often more importantly, the spark will hit at the right time (assuming you keep your plug gap correct) rather than slightly delayed as it would if the ground is bad.

In both cases, though, the OEM engine grounding is *more* than adequate. Make sure it's present and making a good, clean contact, and save your money for something more useful.

When considering magazine's quoting "dyno HP gains" for products, consider:

- Who pays for their advertising?
- Dyno numbers are *not* golden. From one run to the next, all manner of things
can change. Air temperature, humidity, pollutants in your gas, engine
temperature, you name it.

Nothing comes for free; if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

 

[Mitsu_Racing]

$100? All that is, is ground wire you can get from a audio store, washers, zipties, and a battery terminal. I could make that.

Also if one person find the G spot for putting the ground wire, it should be the best spot for every eclipse, right?

 

[jmc94gsx]

Also Hyperground's are sold as an option on the new EVO8.

 

[Awdboost]

I was read the reason why Hyper wire says there so good. WTF It's like they guys at the auto store who try to sell you oxygen free wire for like one dollar more. I feel sorry for the people who get sucked into that stuff. :laugh: Copper wire is copper wire.

 

[RipperXX]

ooo no it's not the way it's wound togeather makes a HUGE deference let me tell yea...

 

[brads]

I completely agree about grounding wires not making power. But, theres a sucker born every minute, so these will probably sell pretty well.

One thing to note, is that with our cars, many of the sensors have their own grounds built in, so improving the main grounds won't affect them.

I am not quite sure how you are saying the spark timing will be affected. Are you saying the additional resistance will affect the coil primary charge current, which then affects the timing? Or are you saying that the additional resistance is going to affect the coil secondary rise time? Because the coil secondary current(which is also the spark current) doesnt even flow through the engine ground on our cars. On some types of car it will, but not ours. So rise time shouldnt be affected. Besides that, the spark current is typically pretty small in the milliamp range, and it would take a LOT of resistance to affect it. By then you would have so much resistance, nothing else would be working right on the car, and it certainly wouldnt start.

I improved the grounds for my older VWs to fix starting issues, which is going to be the first sign of ground wires being bad. I used homebuilt wires. I wouldnt bother on these cars.

Brad

Originally posted by DrZiplok
Grounding wires will not "make power".

If your engine ground is bad, fixing it will improve:

- Sensor readings.
- Spark

 

[djpast]

this issue of import tuner did it on a 92 eagle talon tsi awd. it gained 8 hp and about 8lbs of torque. i am making my own right now

 

[90 EagleClaw]

Originally posted by brads
I completely agree about grounding wires not making power. But, theres a sucker born every minute, so these will probably sell pretty well.

Import tuner dynoed a 1G GSX recently and the ground wires made 15 ft-lbs of torque and something like 5 hp at the WHEELS. They work, hard dyno #'s to prove it. If I find the article online i will post it

 

[brads]

Originally posted by 90 EagleClaw
They work, hard dyno #'s to prove it. If I find the article online i will post it

I generally don't like quoting myself, but:

Originally posted by brads
But, theres a sucker born every minute, so these will probably sell pretty well.

15 ft-lbs of torque, and only 5 hp? that means they found the 15 ft-lbs of torque had to be at below 5252*(5/15), or 1750 RPM, or lower. Because if they got 15 ft-lbs of torque gain anywhere above that RPM, they would have more than a 5 hp gain. Do you know how easy it is to get consistent dyno results at that low of an RPM? Or more importantly, do you know how easy it is to fudge dyno results that far down? Its very difficult to get repeatable results that close to the beginning of a dyno pull. Hit the gas a little slower, or a little later, and BAM 10hp or more. Did they find that 5 hp gain way on up there in the powerband? Did they then remove the wires, and lose the power again? Or did they not repeat the testing to prove their methods? Reporting that gain as valid test data is questionable. I'd like to see the whole article, I couldnt find it when I looked for it at the news stands a while back when it was first mentioned. But I would question the results.

From an electrical standpoint, it just doesnt make sense. How much current do you think is flowing through the ground wire from the coils? Not much at all. A few amps. How much current is flowing through the plug gap? Try milliamps. How much current flows through the plugs and to the main engine ground? Almost nothing on our cars. With those as the case, figure out how much resistance it would take to make a difference. The answer: Way more than the stock wire should have, unless its in very very very bad shape.

Brad

 

[AWDBurn]

I agree with brad here mostly,

The very fact that voltage/amps shouldn’t be flowing at high #s or at all through the parts being grounded by the stock wiring in the first case.

What I do know is that when building a high power stereo system, you better have a good ground if you want to see the wattage that you set your system at, you better do some testing for the best ground location.

Also, if you guys are putting this ground kit on, buy a wire brush and make sure you are grounding metal to metal and not rust>grease>dirt>rock to metal, otherwise you just wasted your time.

I would realy like to see the 3rd gear dyno pull all the way through the power band about ten times with and without the kit on. I like facts more than theories. At question here is how these magazines actually get there results from dyno pulls and how much money is thrown at them from the companies who’s parts are being tested.

 

[djpast]

well i know they did quite a few pulls with the wires on different locations... and even loss hp in some locations (-2 - -3 in some cases)

they listed where the wires would work best for 1g cars, at least on there car... like i siad, i made mine for free. cant hurt to ttry

 

[kgt_rdr]

i have the import tuner right in front of me. take these results however you want. personally, im going to try them out.

2000-3500 rpm = +0 - +3 hp, +0 - +5 torque
3500-5500 rpm = +6 - +16hp, +5 - +16 torque
5500-redline = -3 - +8hp, -2 - +9 torque

 

[brads]

Originally posted by kgt_rdr
i have the import tuner right in front of me. take these results however you want. personally, im going to try them out.

2000-3500 rpm = +0 - +3 hp, +0 - +5 torque
3500-5500 rpm = +6 - +16hp, +5 - +16 torque
5500-redline = -3 - +8hp, -2 - +9 torque

Any chance you have a scanner? I am assuming that issue isnt at the news stand anymore?

Those numbers are much bigger than the other guy made them sound. But the fact that they show losses is very curious, I wonder exactly what their test procedure was?

Brad

 

[benchandler]

Are they just changing out the old wires or changing it to a different system?

 

[tylerwal]

Originally posted by brads


Any chance you have a scanner? I am assuming that issue isnt at the news stand anymore?

Those numbers are much bigger than the other guy made them sound. But the fact that they show losses is very curious, I wonder exactly what their test procedure was?

Brad

it is the current issue of import tuner, i picked up a copy today

 

[djpast]

Originally posted by benchandler
Are they just changing out the old wires or changing it to a different system?

they are not taking out any old wires. they are adding on.

Those numbers are much bigger than the other guy made them sound. But the fact that they show losses is very curious, I wonder exactly what their test procedure was?

they moved the wires around to different locations til they found the ones that gave th most whp on the dyno =)

 

[brads]

Originally posted by djpast

they moved the wires around to different locations til they found the ones that gave th most whp on the dyno =)

So at no point did they ever go back to the original setup, and compare it again to the best results they saw? I still don't see how they lost power adding the wires in. I'd guess thats more of a symptom of how unrepeatable they made their dyno pulls. Did they mention anything about the dyno procedure? Did they do anything to ensure that the ONLY different thing between runs was the cabling? In other words, same operating temp, same tire pressures/temps, same ambient temps, same IC temps. Its really easy to screw up dyno pulls that way. Back to back to back to back runs usually are a good way to help tell if your results are valid in any way.

Brad