Help with choosing the next upgrade

[spyderturbo007]

I am planning on putting some money into the Spyder. My current mods are 2.5" DP, 2.5" Hi-Flow Cat, SAFC-II, Pocketlogger, 1g BOV, Home Depot MBC, Slotted/Dimpled Rotors and Ceramic Pads. My initial idea was to have SBR install a EVO III 16g, 550cc injectors and a 190lph FP. This will run about $2000 with tax and dyno tuning.

I am starting to wonder if this is the right way for me to go. I still have the SMIC and fear that I will have a problem with high intake charge temps. If I go this route I am looking into getting an UICP & WI kit down the road, but will have to take it back for more dyno tuning.

As you can see, I still have the stock cat back....and NO, I am NOT going to upgrade the cat back. I do not want the car any louder than it is now. So with that said ......

I was also considering the following: Trying to fabricate my own FMIC and having the 16g installed by SBR. The problem is that there are no good 2g DIY for FMIC piping while keeping your stock fog lights. Also WI seems so much cheaper and less of a hassle.


My goal: I would like to run low 13's high 12's on pump gas. But the more I look at different times for wrong wheel drive, it looks as though I will be lucky to break 13's.

What you you guys think?

 

[white 2g awd]

well, first if you do do the wi kit, don't tune too it, cause someday if you don't notice and run out of water, your car will be depending on it, then you won't have it and it will cause some pretty bad knock most likely, go to coolingmist website...they say the same thing, unless you check it everyday before you drive, don't tune to it. about the front mount, search more....dougs dyno power has a front mount kit that you can keep your fog lights, rre sells this same core on the dd power's kit, and i think they even have a write up about the install too (with a griffen ic?), just buy the core and get the necessary bends. but much like you i have the evo 3, with hrc big smic, and i plan on going with water injection once i get my engine put in to help, and to keep it a little more stealth. also, i would go with the 660's cause they aren't that much more, and you might be able to max out the 550's with that turbo, don't know if you could with stock exhaust though, but someone else could answer that.

 

[highintenzity4]

Get a 14b turbo and an sbr exhaust manifold.

 

[Burnett03]

2k for a evo turbo, fuel pump, and injectors?? what a rip off

 

[spyderturbo007]

2k for a evo turbo, fuel pump, and injectors?? what a rip off

That's for the turbo, 550cc injectors, install kit, 190 lph FP, installation, tax and dyno tuning.

Seemed very reasonable to me???

Where am I getting ripped off at?

 

[CodeMonkey]

You're not getting ripped off, 2k is about right.

You're not going to get into the 12s on a 16g. Yes, some people have gotten into the 11s with one but not on pump gas, not in a FWD spyder and not with the stock intercooler.

Have you considered going with a 50 trim or other biggie turbo? You'll need a front mount before you can turn up the boost, but it'll be worth it

 

[DGajre777]

How much is installation, taxes and dyno tuning??

Forced Performance has 2 packages. Both of them have this description:

The EVO III Big 16G features a slightly larger compressor wheel than the previous Big 16G. It also uses an improved turbine housing design, which offers better boost control, direct fitment with the EVO3 O2 housing, and weighs in 2.75 lbs lighter than the old style 7cm housings.

The Complete Gasket set includes a 7cm copper turbine housing inlet gasket, 4 - 14mm copper crush washers for the water connections, 2 - 12mm copper crush washers for the oil inlet on the turbocharger, 2 - 10mm copper crush washers for the oil connection at the cylinder head, 2 paper oil drian gaskets for your oil drain tube between the turbo and the oil pan, EVO3 O2 housing inlet gasket, and EVO3 O2 housing DP gasket

Second Generation DSM will require the use of a J-pipe and SS oil line to complete the installation.


EVO III 16G PACKAGE 3 - $927

The EVO III 16G Package #3 includes a ported EVO III Big 16g turbo, ported EVO III O2 Housing, and complete gasket set.

EVO III 16G PACKAGE 4 - $1145

The EVO III 16G Package #4 includes a ported EVO III Big 16g turbo, ported EVO III O2 Housing, complete gasket set, stainless steel oil supply line kit, CNC oil drain line, Walbro 255lph high pressure fuel pump, fuel pump kit, and a Joe P manual boost controller.

Check it out... www.forcedperformance.com

$2000 sounds pricey to me.


On another note, 660cc injectors are $290 at Forced Performance.

About a FMIC:
www.extremeintercoolers.com has a 7" kit will all piping and J pipe for $725. Here is the description: Complete 2g DSM kit , it includes our 7" bar and plate__tube and fin hybrid core intercooler , 2.5 piping all the way to the throttle body elbow and bolts to a 14b , 16g or t25.
~ 30x7x2.8 intercooler 25x7x2.8 core
~ 650 cfm @ 1.5 psi 78% efficiency at 60mph
~ Full Mandrel bent piping , Black Powder Coat
~ Silicone Couplers and SS T-Bar Clamps
~ 1g , greddy , or blitz BOV flange
~ Translator Kit Optional , same price
~ Intercooler bolts directly to bumper support , no cutting

If you don't like the one above, PTE has small and medium intercooler cores for $ 360 and $525 at www.slowboyracing.com
Small - This core measures 26 x 6 x 3.5 (in.) Has 2.5" inlet and outlet, and will support 350 wheel horse power.
Medium - This core measures 31 x 8 x 3.5 (in.) Has 3" inlet and outlet, and will support 600 wheel horse power.

Good luck with whatever you choose and decide

 

[never2muchBoost]

get a 2.5 inch catback u woman. both my friends with gst's have full 3" turbobacks and arent even loud, gst exhausts have to make a lot of bends. its not nearly as loud as a gsx exhaust. one of my friends with a 2.5" exhaust in his gst sounds, no joke, close as hell to stock.

 

[oldman]

That's for the turbo, 550cc injectors, install kit, 190 lph FP, installation, tax and dyno tuning.

Seemed very reasonable to me???

Where am I getting ripped off at?

EVO3 turbo $550
Install kit $200
550s $250
190lph $ 90
______________
Total $ 1090.00

Basically you're paying $910 for labor and tuning time. (Most charges $150/hr. In your case, one hour will be enough) Are you getting ripped off? I don't know. I do know that you will have to open up the exhaust some, there are dual tipped mufflers that sounds pretty much like stock. Good luck.

 

[Jimmy Jr.]

Tit for tat....you aren't going fast on the stock exhaust. 12's on flat slicks with those mods you want aswell as a full exhaust is possible but not with that mitsu catback. If you want to remain quiet a 2.5" exhaust with two resonators from RRE in place of the cat and that should work.

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

I had a custom exhaust built on my Talon DL. It has two 90* bends and another one over the rear axle. It flows well and is NOT loud. Its not obnoxious-'HEY IM A WANNA-BE RICER' type loud, its deep as hell though, no raspiness or buzzing at all, just deep, orgasmic, smooth sound. There are so many exhaust threads on here its not even funny, you should be able to come up with a setup that'll suit your taste. I recommend getting a high flow racing Catco, its not very restrictive AT ALL. It doesnt justify NOT running a cat. I personally think 16g turbos are -anemic-, I read about people getting rid of them after they build a -tolerance- for them. I recommend buying the parts yourself and installing them. For another $910 there are SOOO many things you could do. Oh, and people run 11's FWD with slicks and big(ger) turbos.

 

[DGajre777]

deep, orgasmic, smooth sound.

Wow! I never heard anyone describe exhaust sound like that before. !

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

Wow! I never heard anyone describe exhaust sound like that before. !

Ok, ok, I was just trying to get a rise outta' that and to make the point that not ALL aftermarket exhaust systems sound loud, obnoxious, and buzzy. Just take out the 'orgasmic' part and thats honestly how my exhaust sounds. Its kinda hard to describe.

 

[oldman]

Just take out the 'orgasmic' part

No no that part was fine.

 

[GILZTSIAWD]

I say if you have any mechanic ability whatsoever and/or can follow directions, do it yourself and save your 900 dollars and use that on a front mount, then you shouldnt need wi. Just read up on how to do the stuff and how to tune and tune it yourself also. Even if you dont have the tools, you could buy the tools needed and still be money ahead and have them for later on. Labor is too expensive, thats why I prefer to do all my own work, otherwise I couldn't afford to mod my car!

 

[spyderturbo007]

Mitsu Evo III 16g 49178-01470 1 569.00

2g install kit 1 199.00

Shop labor ** Install Turbo*& Injectors** 375.00

FIC Ball and Disc 550 cc DSM injectors 1 290.00

Walbro 190 LPH 2g FWD fuel pump kit 1 109.00

Shop labor ** Install Fuel Pump**** 150.00

DSM turbo bolts MR 187699 22.00

SBR DYNO PAK, Dyno Tuning w. Wideband 135.00

Tax (6%) 80.34

Total 1929.34


Truthfully I don't mind paying $525 for someone to install everything. I am sure that I could do it myself, but truthfully, I can afford to pay someone and I really don't want to have to deal with it.

As far as the cat back, I am not spending $500 on an exhaust just to find out that it's annoying.

Thank you to those that helped out and didn't say that I needed a cat back and called me a "wuman" (great spelling by the way).

Oh, and DGajre777 you get a rep point for that!! Great information, Thanks!

 

[zachakagoat]

Since you don't want to put a full catback on then why don't you buy a new downpipe and put a cutout in it? Personally I am running a 3" Megan DP and a 3" Tsudo exhaust and it isnt any louder than stock. You can ONLY hear it when you REALLY get on it other than that it's ok. And if you get on it a cop would stop you anyway so I wouldn't worry about the sound then. But if it does bug you get a cutout and just run it at the track you race at.

 

[put2gether]

I hate to pour salt on the big "catback" wound, but ahh... you do realize not having one is going to seriously choke your power, after you add on any mods that increase flow right? You might wanna consider getting a smaller turbo... cause like previously stated, you won't run 12's, or near it for that matter if the car can't breath. The fact that it's a fwd spyder doesn't help things either. I know you said you didn't wanna spend 500.00 on the exhaust, only to be annoyed with it later... but isnt that better than spending 2,000.00 on a complete turbo setup, only to be annoyed with the lack power? But hey thats just my two cents. If you already have your mind made up, go for it. The worst that could happen is you'll want an exhaust later. Which I think you will.

 

[white 2g awd]

like others have said, if you don't want the exhaust then fine, you will be able to support that turbo with the 550's probably, cause maxing it out on a full stock exhaust is gonna be a pretty good feat, i would still get the 650's though, cause trust me its addictive, you will want more power, then you will just have to get them later anyways, if you want to save your money, buy them once and be done. by the way, i was going to get a new set of 550's through sbr (rc 550 was stuck open, screwed up injector), and they talked me into the 650's with the same setup as you almost, so i'm surprised they haven't talked you into that yet either.

 

[91gvr4]

Install it yourself and with the extra money you didnt spend go buy a catback.

 

[staticbrainwash]

you will not spend anywhere near 500 dollars on a catback if you are smart man.

im definately not one for big huge disgusting exhausts, but you need to understand that turbo cars NEED nice free flowing exhausts.

here's what you do. go to an exhaust shop, have them bend you custom 2.5 or 3in pipe, and get a free flow muffler.

you don't need anything fancy in stainless, it's under your car. . . it will rust. you will spend maybe 300 bucks on a whole set up. thats prolly pushing it, and it's also with full install.

just be smart and think it all through man. modding is a chain, one thing changes, most everything else needs to too. im sure you know this so just use your head.

 

[Agent11br]

Few things:

#1 if you are willing to put your own front mount on you can easily do the turbo/injector/pump install.

#2 if you are stuck on keeping the stock cat back segment I would go no larger than a 14b or 16g.

Here would be my list:

14b used - $100-150 OR 16g used - $300ish

Punishment racing 2.5" tubular 02 - $145 or used one for probably around $100

RRE hacker tweaker kit - $195

190 walbro - $95 from extremepsi.com

550's - $180 tops on trader, $250 new

JRC 8" FMIC - $235 shipped (And you can keep the stock fogs, I did!)

3 2.5" U bends - $55

1 2.5" straight piece - $5

2 ft 2.5" 3ply housing - $25

Dozen+ tbolt/worm clamps - $30ish

1g bov flange - $7

Someone to weld piping and stuff - $50-75 for it all

Dyno tuning with wideband - $135

A "fun" weekend of installing it all, some beer, some sweat, a great learning experience, and pride of doing it all yourself - free (well except for the beer)

Grand total: with a 16g roughly around $1482 plus some shipping charges, and I know that it could be lower especially if you find the right deals and make your own install kit

So that would get you everything you are willing to pay $2k for plus an 02 housing, fmic setup, hard intercooler piping, and easy high 13's low 14's with some decent driving.

You're going to need the fmic eventually might as well do it, and the weak point with then become your stock catback which can be cured with a custom made one with a stock looking muffler for around $250-300 or a cutout for around $100.

 

[DGajre777]

Mitsu Evo III 16g 49178-01470 1 569.00

2g install kit 1 199.00

Shop labor ** Install Turbo*& Injectors** 375.00

FIC Ball and Disc 550 cc DSM injectors 1 290.00

Walbro 190 LPH 2g FWD fuel pump kit 1 109.00

Shop labor ** Install Fuel Pump**** 150.00

DSM turbo bolts MR 187699 22.00

SBR DYNO PAK, Dyno Tuning w. Wideband 135.00

Tax (6%) 80.34

Total 1929.34


Truthfully I don't mind paying $525 for someone to install everything. I am sure that I could do it myself, but truthfully, I can afford to pay someone and I really don't want to have to deal with it.

As far as the cat back, I am not spending $500 on an exhaust just to find out that it's annoying.

Thank you to those that helped out and didn't say that I needed a cat back and called me a "wuman" (great spelling by the way).

Oh, and DGajre777 you get a rep point for that!! Great information, Thanks!

You are welcome! Have you done any research on 'boost creep' on the EVO III 16G turbo? I would recommend the following:
1) PORTED evo3 16G turbo (with or without the flapper upgrade)

OR
2) PORTED evo3 16G turbo (with or without the flapper upgrade)
Ported 2G O2 housing
Exhaust upgrade
Upgrade to 660cc injectors

I agree with people in here to do the exhaust upgrade. You'll be choking your turbo without a free flowing bigger exhaust.

Oh and thanks for the rep point

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

you will not spend anywhere near 500 dollars on a catback if you are smart man.

im definately not one for big huge disgusting exhausts, but you need to understand that turbo cars NEED nice free flowing exhausts.

here's what you do. go to an exhaust shop, have them bend you custom 2.5 or 3in pipe, and get a free flow muffler.

you don't need anything fancy in stainless, it's under your car. . . it will rust. you will spend maybe 300 bucks on a whole set up. thats prolly pushing it, and it's also with full install.

just be smart and think it all through man. modding is a chain, one thing changes, most everything else needs to too. im sure you know this so just use your head.

I had Meinekee (however its spelled) weld on my exhaust. It took them about 4 hours and charged me $211~ dollars. A 3" turbo-back on a 1g FWD is NOTHING to sneeze at. I do agree on the exhaust, mine is mostly plain-Jane looking, rusted pipe, high flow cat, cutout, resonator, and muffler ( edelbrock 5525 ). I bought mandrel bends from summit along with the DP and resonator. Im happy with how it sounds. Its not even an annoying loud, so dont be afraid of getting an exhaust

 

[spyderturbo007]

After posting I did talk to SBR and some people on a couple of other forums and they suggested the 650cc injectors. Why not, it's only about $20 more. As far as the exhaust, I have considered installing an electric cutout but I'm pretty sure I would fail emissions with one installed.

As far as the catback goes, I'm really not concerned if I don't get the full potential out of the 16g. I'm just looking for a little more ass out of the car. I may, down the road decide on getting a cat-back, but not until I get a chance to hear some that others have. I haven't found any GST/GSX's around with an exhaust that I can get a ride in, only GS/RS models.

As far as doing the installation goes, I know I could do it myself, but I don't want to. I have done tranny installs, clutch installs and all the normal routine maintenance (minus the timing belt). But I have a good job....finally .....and don't want to deal with doing the installation myself.

I guess we will find out on the 5th of July what the stock cat back can handle as I have made an appointment with SBR to do the work. Maybe while they are dyno tuning I can get them to do a pull with the cat back unbolted. It would be nice to see exactly what type of HP restriction the stock cat back is.