And so it begins

[crankbender]

Well the day has finally come when I will be getting a new car. I have picked out a 90 tsi awd and am looking forward to the build up. I will have a digital camera available at all times when working on the car and intend to catalog everything so let me know what details you want to see.

Let me know what you would want to see on a dream car if you could do anything cause with this project that is where I am going. The engine will not be changed from stock internals tho...yeah I know don't frown I can always do that stuff when everything else is done.

First off every pipe on this car will be custom welded mandrel bends (donuts anyone?). I will be out with the mig and oxygen acetaline equip making everything exactly like I want it. If you have an idea let me know what you are thinking it may get incorperated into the car. The exhaust will be modular so when it goes to the track I can have dumps and on the street I can run a cat if I please.

Here are the parts on the list already

1g intake side of the engine.
2g exhaust manifold
HRC super 20g
FMIC
6?0 injectors
255 lph High pressure fuel pump (or equivelant)
AFPR set at 45-55 base fuel pressure
S-AFC
Hacked mas to avoid miscounts at high flow rates (probably 2g if i can get one)
Cold air intake (I plan on getting the filter element out of the engine bay completely)
battery relocation
4 spider gear center diff
ACT 2900 clutch kit
Turbo oil fill and drain mod
lightening of the car wherever I can (any ideas?)
4 bolt rear end (gonna have to find one of these too)
Shortest possible routing for the IC piping (probably 2-2.5 in ID)
Alcohol injection set for 18+ psi (with cut off switch)
EGT gauge (thinking about an analyzer)
donno about getting a CHT setup yet.
Intake temp gauge
boost gauge
AFM gauge
pocket logger
Possible dry ice/alcohol after cooler (high flow custom made)
Custom ram air to the filter (Yeah I like fog lights too but they have to go)
Of course belts, plugs, rubber, etc
New ignition cables (not manticore any ideas?)
May get an ignition booster but probably not
Exhaust designed to keep the wastegate air from rejoining the rest of the exhaust for a minimum of 12 inches.

Thats about it for the first round.


Any comments on that stuff or possibly something you think I am missing?

 

[Bohrn]

hey, in addition to the high end stuff, could you post pics of the "simple" stuff for us rookies?

Specifically, I will be getting a boost guage and a MBC soon and I want to make sure I plumb into the best places on both.

As well, if you feel the need to test your pressures with a bike pump, maybe you can take some shots of that too, so I can see what lines to tap, and what to block off etc, and not screw up my car.

I wish I could do everything soon, but it will have to wait, I envy you, but in a year or 2 I will be there right with ya in the 11's baybe

 

[larryd]

awesome man, i look forward to the guides

 

[rdrkt]

If you haven’t already purchased the Super 20g I would definitely say pass. I have seen tons of 20gs make nearly 400hp to the wheels I can not say the same for the HRC turbo.

With the hacked mass your mas signal is going to go into the toilet and your idle will suck. This is the boat I am in right now I had to hack my mas pretty good to avoid fuel cut @ 21 psi on my 60 trim. But I went from about 15in at vacuum to well under 10 . So just take off as much as you need to avoid fuel cut.

You have to do a bunch or crap to make most tech inspectors happy for a relocated battery and it isnt worth it IMO. Just get a dyna bat it weighs less then the battery on my R6 did.

You mentioned a 4 gear spider diff but not a built tranny. A 2900 is going to be even more abusive to the drivetrain then a 2600. Most of the guys in the street class run a 2900 with a 95 disk to take some of the stress of the driveline.

If you find a way to make a cold air setup work for a mas car let us know because you will be a rich man seriously it will be a pita good luck.

If you are looking for ways to lighten up your car I would suggest these things:

A Fiberglass or carbon fiber hood my buddy just had an 8 lbs hood made locally of fiberglass and its is decent quality for 300 bucks. But that is a bit too flexible for a street car. He did have an 11 lb hood for around the same 300 bucks. That I think I will give a try a bit latter it was a bit thicker and I would give up the weight to not have it flap in the wind. Just as a reference the stock hood weighs about 40 lbs.

Remove all of the bumpers you have to hack the front bumper to hell when you add a FMIC anyway so this one wont be missed. The back on can be removed also. The two bumpers should weigh around 50 lbs.

A lighter battery the stock bat is very heavy. A few of my buddies got dyna bats and they are around 10lbs and still start the car in the winter fine.

Next is the AC this can save you about 30lbs.

Then you can scrape all the sound deadening out this weighs around 20lbs But will give you cabin that tin can sound.

The you can go with lighter wheels the stock wheels are heavy 23+ lbs. My subzeros weigh in at 17 lbs a piece.

These are all the easy things. These should also be relatively cheap to do. I am sure you can get as crazy with weight as you want and spend a ton of money doing it.

Oh and good luck

 

[rdrkt]

You would be suprised what is documented with pictures on the VFAQ and in some of the posts on DSMTAlk I would start there.

 

[crankbender]

Why would a 20g be able to make that kind of hp and a S20g not? The only difference between the 2 is the size of the turbine housing. If you can point me to where a car made more with a stock 20g than it did with a S20g I would deffinately love to take a look.

The mas shouldn't really effect your vacume if you correct the fuel correctly with your piggyback. this is of course assuming your didn't hack it too much (I am not planning on killing the thing...I may just work an adjustable bypass so I can change the hack rating with a screw

You are right I am not going to build the tranny till I break it...But when it breaks we will see what I decide to do with it. I am not completely sure on the 2900...it is kinda a toss up between the 29 and 26 right now I just don't want to get a 26 in there and have it slip under full load.

The ac is under debate right now but it will probably not come out unless the car puts up some serious times.

The cold air intake will happen even if i have to make a cowl somewhere I refuse to see the car suffer because of the under hood temps.

For everybody here what turbo would you get if you were going to do a buildup similar to this one?

 

[Jason_Crowe11]

I'd get a Mutt(http://www.dsm-performance.com)_ but that's just me.

Laters
Jason.

 

[dsmtrance]

I don't know much about the Mutts (have heard many good things about them though). Also don't know too much about the HRC S-20g's (have read up on them on their site, but don't know anyone personally with one). If it were me, if it was between the 20g and the S-20g, I'd go 20g. I have a ported/clipped (10deg.) td05 20g from Forced Performance and I LOVE IT.

Call me old school, but I also don't like the idea of running an internal gate with all of these LARGE turbos (seems to be the new trend though . I like my Extreme SS o2 w/ 40mm Tial just fine

 

[rdrkt]

this is a dyno chart from a member on this board swordfishgsx. He doesn’t have anything to extreme done and he is making some decent power and I think he can find about 30 more with some tuning.

I am sure I could find a dozen more examples of people making big numbers on 20gs. I just hate seeing people spend money on turbos that haven’t been tested yet. When you go with the 20g at least you are sure its you and not the turbo when you aren’t making the power you are supposed to. The FP Green is also right in the price area too and that is a great turbo.

 

[crankbender]

It just seems funny to me that the S-20g...which is a 20g with a larger turbine housing would have problems making power. Both wheels are the same as all the 20gs out there (well most of em anyway). A larger housing will cause the turbo to spool slightly slower (depending on the nozel size inside the housing) but should allow bigger power after it spools. There are guys here on the board that have S-20gs spooling at 3500 so that shouldn't be a problem. It just looks like a better turbo than the 20g...but then again the car has had neither on it.

 

[rdrkt]

How much is the S20g in relation to a FP 20g or a FP Green

 

[candela]

sorry to interupt, im pretty new to this dsm stuff, but was also about to purchase a 20g... ans am curious what/where the FP green is?

 

[candela]

i thought that forced performance had crap, from what i was told... i guess you like it?

 

[rdrkt]

It irks me that you would say something derogatory about something you have no clue about. For future reference its think than speak that way you won’t run into these problems.

Regardless Forced Performance is one of the best DSM turbo shops out there you can find their accomplishments here . A decent amount of the big boys (including Shepherd) utilize their services and regular people have gotten great results from their products too.

 

[candela]

no no no, like i sais im pretty new to dsm's , not cars in general though. I said and/or meant that i heard they were crap, thats why I asked... relax man geez

 

[Ludachris]

Before we get in a "this shop's turbo VS that shop's turbo" debate:

Crankbender, if you're confident with your decision, go for it. So far, I haven't heard enough feedback that would change my mind. It doesn't sound like anyone here has installed, tuned and tested a S20g and compared it to another turbo that they also installed, tuned and tested under the same conditions. That's the real feedback I'd be looking for.

Hey, I don't know anyone that has run 400hp with a S20g either, doesn't mean it hasn't been done, or that it isn't as easy to accomplish as a regular 20g. It just means it's not as popular, and not as many people have tried it.

I'd say do it! It would be nice to have more people with solid feedback on that particular turbo on the site.

 

[candela]

perfectly said... ludachris

 

[crankbender]

FP green internally gated 1525
Fp 20g has no online listing that i could find quickly
turbotrix 20g ported and clipped (likely to have the same effect a larger turbine housing will have but obviously to a different degree) 1050
HRC S-20g 799 (turbo only)

All of these have similar turbine wheel sizes (the mutts around this size use the garret T3HF? which is slightly smaller in size than the TD06 and larger than the TD05)

I believe the 20gs (non high flow) are all using the TD05 housing in differing sizes (meaning different TD05 wheels?) (7-10cm^2) (smaller than the T3HF)

The green uses a TD06 turbine wheel (same as the S-20G-H)

The compressor wheels on all 20gs should be the same...slightly smaller than the green (10% less flow according to the turbotrix site)

The way I look at it the S20g will have similar characteristics to a ported and mildly clipped 20g. The only difference between it and the standard 20g is the turbine housing. I am guessing the turbine wheel is the stock TD05H from a stock 20g.

Check out here for wheel sizes.
http://www.alltrac.net/tuning/turbo.html
http://www.stealth316.com/2-turboguide.htm


*edit*
Lud-that was the info I was looking for...i even asked for a link to it if anybody has seen it. On the HRC site they have a FWD doing 11s with the S-20g....I would say that is some serious power and they make no mention of nitrus on the car.

The S-20g-n is on a neon doing 10s and that is a FWD car too...but he has nos.

Currently I am very confident that this is the turbo for me. I am not going to need anything bigger than that I believe (If I do I will need sponsorship to afford the engine and tranny rebuild). The turbo should have very similar flow and spool to the standard 20g but have a less restrictive exhaust..... just going to have to talk to them about getting the install kit without the o2 housing to save on cost. I don't like o2 housings that put the wastegate exhaust into the main exhaust flow that soon.

IMHO most of the turbos out there are very similar to their counterparts in the same size range. Picking one is based on your personal style as much as anything else.

*edit*

 

[crankbender]

Anybody have any cars in the 400+hp range? if you do what clutch are you running and how does it hold?

Another question--I can do the buildup all at once and look at the results...probably a little easier to do and faster too.

but if a number of people are interested in me putting up some numbers as I do things one at a time I will try and do that.

What kind of power do you think this setup will be able to lay down? Do the mods seem to compliment eachother?

Forgot the turbo timer and something else but I can't think of it right now.

 

[rdrkt]

I am in the range you speak of and I have a 4 puck act. No pedal pressure but very difficult to drive slowly at low revs. A few of the other people in my group making that power are running act 2600s. The order that you are going to do your build up depends on what you are adding. I would through the fpr on right away that way you have a bit more flexibility. If I had to take a guess at your power output I would say max would be in the 400hp or less area with c16 depending on the rest of your mods. Oh and don’t buy a turbo timer just use synthetic oil and you will never have a problem I swear.