Objective 10 second ET's.

[Sean91TSi]

The parts.....

Motor....

Eagle Rods
Ross or Arias pistons
1mm oversized valves
new locks, springs, retainers
arp head and main studs
no balance shafts
metal hg
hks 272/272 cams
UDR Cam gears
UDR pullies

Intake/Intercooler/cooling/....

IRC Race FMIC w/ piping
BR Cold air intake
Sheetmetal Intake Manifold(VR design)
fluidyne radiator

Exhaust/Turbo....

FP Green model
ported 95 manifold
3" Turbo back exhaust(street)
custom behing driver side wheel d/p for the track

Driveline.....

ACT 2600/6 puck
RRE lightened flywheel
Shep racing tranny
welded center diff
4 bolt rear

Fuel.....

8-10 Gallon Cell
twin walbro 255hp pumps
denso 720cc injectors

Nitrous....

100 shot NX GEN-X2 system
NX Bottle Blanket
NX Blow down tube

Suspension....

H&R Springs
KYB AGX's

Electronics.....

Haltech E6k Standalone
HKS EVC EZ boost controller
the standard 10/11 second dsm car gauges

Interior....

10 Point Chromoly cage
Corbeau A4 Seats x2
Simpson 5 point harnesses
Laptop
Fully stripped nuthin but carpet

Exterior.......

16x8 Polished forgeline rs wheels
Nitto DR's/green dot retreads
cf hood
VR Graffics(dont ask design undecided)

Micellaneus....

full polyeurothane bushing set


Its 10:20 i havent slept i know im forgetting things here. But i just wanna know what u guys think. I hope to have this all done by April 26th at the NEDSM Shootout at E-Town. If im missing something just state it. I knwo most of u will prolly think im some newbie bench racer with high hopes thatll never follow through. Well your wrong but u can think what u want, Alot of ppl know me here and talk to me regularly and knwo im not joking about this. So just post yer thoughts and when my mind starts to function again ill respond.

LONGEST POST EVER my head hurts.

 

[90GSX]

nice list, check your PM's.

 

[GSX_RCR]

Do you have all of this now? Damn, share the wealth!

 

[rdrkt]

I don’t know if 10s with nitrous and a Green is realistic. Your average DSM guy gets a green to the mid 120s you cant count on a 100 shot giving you another 10mph in your traps that equation doesn’t work the same at the level. I’m not saying it cant be done far from it but its not going to be at all easy.

I wouldn’t put a high dollar motor together with Eagle Rods. If you are going to use good Ross pistons you want to use a good rod like Crower it is the standard nuff said.

If you are going with a SM intake manifold don’t forget a 70mm Mustang TB. Its stilly to get a new intake manifold and then use the stock TB.

If you are going to be tuning this car yourself with the standalone you almost have to get a wideband 02. They are cheap enough right now around 300 for the DIY or 650 for the FJO but it makes tuning so much easier and it eliminates that expensive dyno bill. I would say that it is a requirement for cars wanting to make 500hp.

Most of the guys in the street class slip the heck out of the clutch to get good 60fts and take it easy on the driveline. I had a CM 4 puck clutch and it has an on/off engagement if the ACT 6 puck is anything close to that you are going to run into issues. Speaking of drivetrain if you want to make a 10 sec pass you are going to have to be able to shift PERFECT not good or decent or even great but absolutely perfect in every gear. Keep in mind that most guys at that level use a 95 clutch disk with a ACT 2900 or 3200 PP and then change it after every 30 or so passes. Many guys also replace the syncros and bearings after about that many passes as well. Also I would NEVER run a lightened flywheel and I so mean NEVER EVER. They are too fragile I have seen a few explode and that’s enough for me. Technically speaking to be legal for a 10 sec pass you need an SPI approved flywheel. I would take a look at the Findanza (sp?)

You also might have issues with your tire selection. Nitrro DRs grip great but normally require a burnout to become sticky. AWD DSMs don’t really like doing burnouts and it would be difficult to get them hot enough. Toyos don’t require the same type of burnout to get sticky. Or if you really want to get serious about breaking stuff try out the Hoosiers that Shepherd uses.

 

[Sean91TSi]

Thanks RDRKT your advice is well taken.

I forgot the TB and the VR fjo o2 the car will be dynod by dan at pruven performance

crower rods didnt know that thanks for the tip bud

also thanks for the trans tips and flywheel tips

oh and the tire tips

This wont be a full on drag car just that car that gets taken to a few events a year and sees limited street use.

Thanks for the tips u gave me something to research on today thank you.

 

[GSX_RCR]

That's alot of $$$ to throw at a "weekend" race car. Might as well try to compete and win some of that $$ back. Heck, might even pick up a sponsor or two to foot the bill for parts and such.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by GSX_RCR
That's alot of $$$ to throw at a "weekend" race car. Might as well try to compete and win some of that $$ back. Heck, might even pick up a sponsor or two to foot the bill for parts and such.

File that one under never

 

[GSX_RCR]

! Along with the 10 second street car on pump gas and the open vent BOV, MAS mod.

 

[jdmawd]

I don’t know if 10s with nitrous and a Green is realistic

I think its very realistic, just check the dsmtimes page. You will see that the green has run in the 10's. therefor its more than likely that you can run 10's with it also

 

[GRNDSM]

You are forgetting to keep a spare JS tranny, a few transfer cases and rear axles in stock. You will be replacing rear axles and/or transfer case every 10-20 1/4 passes... A tranny can let go at every missed shift.

So on an average, I would count on $1000-$2000 worth of brocken drivetrain parts per year. And that assumes that you drive it well. If you can't drive it well, you can blow those parts on EVERY pass .

Leon
RR

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by GRNDSM
You are forgetting to keep a spare JS tranny, a few transfer cases and rear axles in stock. You will be replacing rear axles and/or transfer case every 10-20 1/4 passes... A tranny can let go at every missed shift.

[rant on] I don’t agree with that at all to put it mildly. People have put literally hundreds of 1.6 60ft launches on 12 second DSMs without a maintenance schedule like that. Even with a welded center diff which is VERY hard on driveline parts I wouldn’t expect breakage like that. Even Shepherd doesn’t replace his stuff that often and he is making a ton of power. I will use my buddy Wes as an example he has made about a dozen 10 sec passes but a ton of low 11 sec passes while make 500+ to the wheels and he has never had breakage issues like that. [/rant off]

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by jdmawd
I think its very realistic, just check the dsmtimes page. You will see that the green has run in the 10's. therefor its more than likely that you can run 10's with it also

and you wonder why no one likes you

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by rdrkt

and you wonder why no one likes you

Well, I think its a good resource, to see what other's are running. This way you know a certain number is obtainable, with a given turbo. thus proves, that the turbo you buy. Is capable of supporting the time you desire.


please stay on topic.

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by jdmawd
Well, I think its a good resource, to see what other's are running. This way you know a certain number is obtainable, with a given turbo. thus proves, that the turbo you buy. Is capable of supporting the time you desire.

Correct. However as I have said MANY times before and what you are purposefully choosing to ignore is you have to see what a FEW people are doing. Just because one guy is doing it does not mean you can as well. You have to research what is special about that persons car and than figure out what you need to do to replicate his times.

A quick scan of dsmtimes.org and the Forced Performance Hall of Fame shows exactly 1 AWD DSM in the 10s with a Green. That isn’t really consistent enough to show a pattern. Further research shows that mid/high 11s is where most Green turbos run on boost alone. If you placed a call to FP they would in no way suggest that a Green was a 10 sec capable turbo.

Please don’t act like you are trying to help this person out. I however want to see everyone succeed and do well with their DSM even you. I honestly have no idea why you have to behave like this. It is not in anyway productive. I cant even count how many threads have been closed because of you. Until you have something useful to share why don’t you keep your comments to yourself?

 

[GRNDSM]

> I don’t agree with that at all to put it mildly. People have put literally hundreds of 1.6 60ft launches on
>12 second DSMs without a maintenance schedule like that.

This marker is sort of irrelevant when you are talking about low 11’s or 10’s… There is a HUGE difference between 11 and 12 sec cars (never mind 10 sec cars). I ran 12.0-12.2 for several years in Stock Appearing trim before I stepped up to the 20G/11sec combo. I really miss those days of running 12’s. All I had to do was set my stutter box 5000-6000 rpms (depending on traction that day) and dump the clutch with WOT. Aside from center diff, I never had any other drivetrain issues. In now days, my car rarely see WOT in the 1st gear and gets really tail happy in the 2nd when I do go WOT.

>Even with a welded center diff which is VERY hard on driveline parts I
> wouldn’t expect breakage like that.

Spoken like someone who does not have a locked center diff… Between just a few of my friends, we broke around 4-5 rear axles and a few transfer cases. Welded/locked center diff. put tremendous amount of EXTRA load on everything associated with your RWD.

BTW ever sense I have been running JDM (switchable) transfer case, I have not experienced any transfer case failures. I always suspected that they are stronger (based on output shaft design), but the longer my is lasting the more I am convinced of that.


>Even Shepherd doesn’t replace his stuff that often and he is making a ton of power.

1. John takes it easy on his car in 99% of his passes.
2. He is not using stock rear axles.
3. I am not sure which rear end he is using.
4. His car is much lighter than a typical DSM
5. (related to # 1) He is a phenomenal driver and as I said before, good driving make a HUGE difference when it comes to braking parts.

>I will use my buddy Wes as an example he has made about a dozen 10 sec passes
>but a ton of low 11 sec passes while make 500+ to the wheels and he has never
> had breakage issues like that. [/rant off]

Well, I do not know Wes’s setup, there might be a very good explanation why he is having better than average luck with this car. There are exception to every rule of thumb. But anyone going into running 10’s should know the other side of “running 10’s”.

Leon
RR

 

[rdrkt]

Originally posted by GRNDSM
But anyone going into running 10’s should know the other side of “running 10’s”.

Absolutely. However when you start making 11 sec or lower power that days of dumping the clutch are long gone. Most of the “fast” guys you the slip method where they slip the clutch a lot to save wear and tear on driveline parts. I know that has worked very well in lowering my 60fts. You just have to be willing to replace your clutch after every 30 or so passes. But if the fast guys were really breaking TCs that often there wouldn’t be an available TC or rear end left anywhere.

 

[Sean91TSi]

Thanks guys. I just woke up 6 pm . So ill try to make this as legible as possible.

1. Im me im not someone else. So i dont wanna be like o he ran 10's i guess i can to.

2. I have an extra TC. But just the one tranny. Like i said i dont expect to make 30 passes in a year either. Maybe 10-15 at the most.

3. What turbo would u suggest to get a 10 easier than the green. How good is that BR57 etc......

 

[NosLaser]

The big question is are you looking to use this as a street car, or more exclusively a track car? The biggest turbo that *I* would personally put on a street car is a 60 trim. They offer pretty darn good spoolup with proper tuning, move quite a bit of air, and a T3 hi-flow back wheel is a nice choice. Will it run 10's? The answer is it *could.* Your other likely alternative would be to use a 60-1. However, and there are a FEW exceptions to the rule, but not many, you won't make as much power pump gas for pump gas as you could on a 60 trim due to efficiency, and you'll sacrifice a lot of spool-up as well, making it less livable as a street car. Now, race gas for race gas, the 60-1 will make a good deal more power than the 60 trim. A 60-1 with nitrous can be a 10 second setup, but again, there is more to 'what turbo is on the car' to a 10 second setup. You seem like you understand this pretty well, but if you are looking to keep the car streetable, then I wouldn't go any further than the above two choices.

Regards,

 

[GSX_RCR]

The bullshit stops when the greenlight drops.

Just build it, tune it, then drive it. You seem to be on the right path. So stick with it and see it til the end. AFTERWARDS, come back and talk about it. Cuz we can bench race all day like this...

 

[LASERLX]

Originally posted by GSX_RCR
The bullshit stops when the greenlight drops.

Just build it, tune it, then drive it. You seem to be on the right path. So stick with it and see it til the end. AFTERWARDS, come back and talk about it. Cuz we can bench race all day like this...

haha...shuddup you ricer

 

[GSX_RCR]

! Takes one to know one!

BTW, come pick up all this junk in my garage!

 

[Sean91TSi]

NosLaser basically its gonna be THAT car that yer granpa owns that only sees nice weather except mine will see the import events at E-Town, NED, ATCO MIR and places up on the North East coast. It will recieve limited street time(car shows CCDSM meets) itll probably have more miles on the track than the street is what im getting at.

Do u happen to know where i could get flow charts of the 60-1 and the 60 trim turbos. I was thinking of going with a T series turbo but i havent really looked into them as much as others. Any help would be appreciated. The turbo is the main part holding me back now. You said the 60-1 would have a slow spoolup do u think the addition of the 100 shot would help the spoolup.


I forgot who said what about sponsorship. But im not in it to make money or make a name for myself. This is just a hobby for me for now. Pus there isnt any room for a 10 second car to bne competitive in pro drag racing now adays u gotta be looking at 8's or lower to be competitive. It took Extreme what 3 years to TOUCH an 8 second time slip and there the only unibody awd car to do it so far. Like i said this is just a hobby not an obsession.

 

[Sean91TSi]

Hey RDRKT if u have AIM and get a few minutes think u could send me a Instant Message(hipsitsiawd) id like to ask u a few questions abotu yoursetup and a few things on the BR57. Thanks

 

[HighPsi91]

I agree about the green being too small for 10's. If your goal is to "hit" a ten second pass with nitrous once or twice then the green would be the way to go. If your goal is to run tens with somewhat regularity and relative ease then the red would be the best choice in a mitsu/garrett hybrid.

The parts buildup you have listed sounds good so there is no need to limit yourself to a street turbo. If you go straight garret t3/t4 or straight t4 then there are endless options... possibly too many.

As far as drivetrain its true (knocking on wood) ever since I built my car to its current state I have yet to break a single drivetrain part. I went through half a dozen trannies back in my 12 sec days. It does come down to driving style mostly. I drive my car very very conservatively because fixing stuff all the time takes the fun out of it.

The other are I agree with is the clutch. Puck clutches just plain dont work with our cars well. Stick with the ACT 2600 with street disc or 2g mitsu disc. Like rdrkt said plan on replacing it often.

I do have a complete spare rear assembly, 2 spare transfer cases, and a spare tranny waiting. They WILL break one day.

Also running dual fuel pumps can create some hassle. You would be better off with one big one. I will be selling my big Paxton pump soon.. I have used it to go mid 10's thus far.

 

[mrmadmax]

Originally posted by rdrkt

I wouldn’t put a high dollar motor together with Eagle Rods. If you are going to use good Ross pistons you want to use a good rod like Crower it is the standard nuff said.

I know you 'wouldn't' put a high dollar motor together with Eagle rods, but is that just because you 'haven't' put together a motor with Eagle rods? or is there some other reason? (first hand experience, no hearsay please)

Don't get me wrong, I believe in running what 'works' but hey, Eagle rods are half the price, made from the SAME alloy, and are VERY well made (as well as any of the Crower rods I've used in motors; several of them).

Crower enjoys a nice share of the con rod market right now, but I think we'll be seeing alot more Eagles in the future.

On the other hand, If you've had an Eagle rod fail, I'd really like to see a pic. I love to do computer stress analysis, especially when I can back it up with real life failures.