propane...

[Silent2g]

alright, before i go off the deep end and sticka tank in my car. i was wanting to know if there was anyone else running a propane kit on a dsm.
im not talking 3kgt or other turbo cars
t/e/l specific

its cheaper then nitrous
cheaper the water injection


im looking for hard facts here. not someome pushing a product onto me.

show me the numbers or experiences

any response is welcome

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Well I'm getting one this week. As soon as I install it I will give you some impressions. If dsmtalk was working you could see a review of it on there.

 

[ClutchTSI/AWD]

I thought you could only run propane on a deisel. can you really run it on gas cars or is this a joke?

 

[greyforestgst]

i have one right now sitting in a box waiting for my lazy ass to rig up a harness for the 10lb tank i bought...
im having second thoughts now, because its a lot easier to fill up a resorvoir of water than of propane, but i figure i will use a small 'shot', and i hardly ever pass 10psi of boost on the street anyway.

 

[Silent2g]

sweet man.
what kit are you getting? the IPO one?
my cars not as radical as yours.
the goal, and the reason why im thinking propane is to run at least mid 12's for under 2k dollars including the car.

a write up would awesome

pro's cons
the usual drill of a write up

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Originally posted by Silent2g
sweet man.
what kit are you getting? the IPO one?
my cars not as radical as yours.
the goal, and the reason why im thinking propane is to run at least mid 12's for under 2k dollars including the car.

a write up would awesome

pro's cons
the usual drill of a write up

Yes the IPO one. I know the guy who makes the kits. He works at my work.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Originally posted by greyforestgst
i have one right now sitting in a box waiting for my lazy ass to rig up a harness for the 10lb tank i bought...
im having second thoughts now, because its a lot easier to fill up a resorvoir of water than of propane, but i figure i will use a small 'shot', and i hardly ever pass 10psi of boost on the street anyway.

You hardly ever pass 10psi on the street.

Drive that friggin car.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Originally posted by ClutchTSI/AWD
I thought you could only run propane on a deisel. can you really run it on gas cars or is this a joke?

No it's not a joke.

www.importpoweronline.com

 

[Silent2g]

im the same as greyforest there
i really don't boost the car unless i have too
i like my gas mileage
my ebc is set at 8 psi during the week.
but on weekends i give it hell. im usually on 112 octane friday through sunday
if i can do propane it would save me about 150 bucks in gas a weekend and i could still run the same boost levels and possibly higher due to the higher "octane" rating of it.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

You could do that.

I'm getting it so I can run 20psi easily on 91 oct squirrel piss.

and 23-25 psi at track w/o haveing to buy race gas.

 

[ClutchTSI/AWD]

Thats awsome. What kind of mods do you need to suport the propane kit? Are there real big gains from this I know its probably not like nitrus right?

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Then gain is lower intake temps,lower egt's the ability to run the same boost you would on race gas on the street w/o having to pay for it.

 

[TheEnd]

Im not sure i'd feel safe running propane to be honest, i dont understand how that could work right in some of these engines...i guess with some mods, but i dont know what you'd need to get that to work...can someone help me out with a reply on this one, im interested now...

 

[Tallen]

where a good FAQ site on this. the hunger for knowledge is overcoming me

 

[ClutchTSI/AWD]

Yeah id like to find some more info too .Ive been trying to search but haven't found anything that list suporting mods for the kit . And id like to know some more detailed info on the use of propane on cars with perfomance benifits.

 

[CH152]

I second the knowledge knowing, can i jsut take the can off my grill and put it in the trunk? and tap a wiring harness into the intake line going to the TB? will this work, hell it will save me some money. I am gonna make my own kit, that site larry had posted was for 300 dollars, i am gonna try the back yard BBQ car thing...

 

[GSX_RCR]

I remember reading about that.

The guy was using propane to cool the intake charge temps, plus having the added benefit of having higher octane to reduce knock and detonation. He was running it on his 3KGT with various datalogging screenshots.

Propane is pretty high up there when it comes to octane ratings. 110+ I believe. It doesn't ADD any hp like nitrous would, it only allows you to boost higher to achieve bigger numbers.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

It's 116 octane. If I can get chris to come on here he can explain it to you in more detail.

 

[Imp Pwr Online]

Hey all

Here are some datalogs to ponder:
http://www.importpoweronline.com/propanelogs.html

and info on the kit
http://www.importpoweronline.com/propane.html

You will see from the Info page there are many parts and all high quality that go into the kit. NOTHING in the kit is from or adapted from a BBQ grill. The high pressure Regulator alone retails for close to $75. Then there is the LPG Fuel Lock Solenoid good to 310psi, pressure gauge, Custom machined 6 turn needle valve, and the list goes on. I know, I don't want to try and sell here it is against the rules...but for $300 it is a bargain and we are not becoming rich. It's also something that can't be one off'ed out of BBQ parts for $100 a pop...

We have sold kits to Every type of FI car and truck available and most are now referals from friends who have gotten grat results.

Propane has two benefits.

1. It comes out of the tank cold. Gas going from compressed to uncompressed cools. Some say as low as -40F at the tank valve. A lot of that is lost in it's travel to the intake but some temp drop is attained. We have seen EGT drops of up to 100F but lean out more to raise back to 1600F WOT end of 3rd. Dont' want real low EGTs, that hurts performance. Need EGTs for the Scavange effect!

2. The HIGH octane rating from 110+ is where the most benefit comes from! In our test car we run 91 octane and max out at 14psi before knock sets in. We do have raised comp forged pistons so real comp is raised by almost 2psi so lets say 16psi real in cylinder psi. With propane we can get to 22psi for a few hard runs and have NO knock and 20psi ALL day long no knock. This is not buy having a tuned car and dumping more (propane) fuel creating a rich environment which would keep knock down. We tuned at what our VR4 like which is 94-96 at WOT (sounds high but that is what they like...venture to 3si.org for that info) Once EGTs are maxing at around 1600 and O2s are 94-96 then we add propane. We then Back out Fuel with SAFC till the new Gas and Propane mixture is once again at the magic 94-96. But now the 94-96 is made up of part 91 part colder 110+. This is also what the logs are showing.

Propane also burns very clean!

We use a 5# tank. Very small! Costs $2 to fill. We set our up to come on at 12psi. I drive it like I stole it so unless a cop is on my back or I am ina parking lot or stopped at a light...She is over the 12psi . Given that...It lasts about 3 weeks or about 4 gas tank fill ups (20 gal tank)

Just like Water alky you need to know when your tank is running low. Don't want to be at full boost and run out. The pressure gauge that comes in the kit will tell you when tank pressure is lowering with denotes an emptying tank. The Regulator allows for a constant line pressure. Without it your pressure would change with the ambient temp. Tuning would be impossible. One day you would shoot 150psi next morning you would be shooting 100psi....You would be all over the place. We run at 80psi.

Any queston pelase let me know.

 

[GSX_RCR]

Any track times? Or dyno pulls with and without the propane injection? It's hard to sell a product without "hard" proof, although those logs do look promising.

 

[Imp Pwr Online]

Originally posted by GSX_RCR
Any track times? Or dyno pulls with and without the propane injection? It's hard to sell a product without "hard" proof, although those logs do look promising.

Sorry, No AWD Dynos around and no track time

Here is one of many emails we recv form users that I posted on 3si..

http://www.3si.org/portal/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105208&highlight=supra

He made a new personal best time with propane. He also made his breaking run with race gas but beat his race gas only run record.

 

[TurboAwd]

Imp pwr online,

On that 3si board I read about someone worried that the tank would blow if you got rear ended and this is something I worry about also. Have you ever had a customer report that the propane tank withstood a significant impact or the opposite (that it exploded on a minor collision)? Here in Ohio we have some poor drivers and I wouldn't want to be in the car if the propane exploded. If this propane injection works like you say it does then it would be a great mod for $300 no doubt.

Also what about leaks. Anyone ever report that the tank or the lines leaked on them? That's another one of my concerns. This is defiantly something I want to try in the future though. 110+ octane daily would be great.

-Paul

 

[Imp Pwr Online]

One of our first customers was a GNX, 2 weeks later he got slammed by an old lady at a light and damn near totaled the car. Nothing happened to the propane. Propane tanks are over built. Stick a scewdriver (don't really do it) into your GAS tank. punctures pretty easy right!? And we drive around with those things every day. Try (you can do this casue you won't succeed) to puncture a propane tank. Aint gonna happen. They are thick as heck...

As for leaks you should seal it off from the interior and there is a blow off valve for overpressure on the new tanks. This has an end that you can attatch a dump hose to to vent it out.

The Supply hose is routed outside the vehicle. Unlike other kits available, ours is OFF until ignition is ON and the set boost level is hit. then and only then is the LPG Lock Solenoid activated at the tank and only then is there pressurized LPG in the fuel line going to the motor. Other systems pressurize the line with propane from the tank all the way to the motor and place a solenoid under hood. If the line was cut for any reason the tank would 100% empty out. In our system the lock Solenoid is at the tank so unless Ign is on and boost pressure is reached there is zero propane in the line. If the line is cut in an accident no biggie, the tank is locked closed.

Almost every kit we sell we get an email response. Every email response is positive and then they send thier friends our way. We have had much better results than water alky. We tried 50% methanol and could not match propane's ability to increase boost without knock...

Any other questions please shoot em my way. I know not too many DSMs to show you stats...but what works for a turbo car should work for all turbo cars but it will be good to see solid DSM results.

L2RTSiAWD is getting his kit tomorrow and will be posting results soon!

 

[1stGENracer]

I got to get this, 1 reason because I will be running higher boost soon. and 2nd reason, because the morons at my work think they know all about cars, and this would make them be like WTF? , I love stumping those morons.

 

[TurboAwd]

It sounds like you guys are on the ball with your propane injection. I can guarantee you have a future customer here. I didn't figure your tank would be flimsy but better safe then sorry you know.

-Paul