Blog Title: Road Race/Autox '95 GST Blog
Building a fast, fun, and great handling road race and autox car, while keeping it street legal and clean.
HyperFest '10 - NASA HPDE 1
I attended HyperFest on June 19th-20th at Summit Point Motorsports Park in West Virginia. We would be running on Summit Point Main course. This was my first time out on a road course. I had done a couple autox's and a drag event, so I had some track experience with the car before this. But this is completely different as you're pushing your car hard for 20 minutes straight. My brother and I felt the car was ready to go and was hoping for no major problems. We feel confident in our work, but you can't always predict what will happen, especially with how long the sessions are.
We headed down on Friday June 18th to get teched that night to avoid the big mess Saturday morning. I was able to borrow a trailer from a good friend, which helped out a lot. I was not going to drive the car down, even though it was only about 1.5 hours to the track, for fear of something going wrong. We loaded the car up on the trailer Friday afternoon, packed up the truck bed with all the stuff we thought we'd need in any situation, and headed out. This was my first time trailering anything, so I was a bit nervous. I was pulling the car with a '07 Dodge Ram 2500, so wasn't worried that the truck would have any problems. It has a hitch setup to pull 10k lbs. so no issues there either. My brother had installed a MaxBrake electric/hydraulic brake controller the weekend before, so we were set. Once I got moving, I pretty much forgot the car was behind the truck, other than some rattling sounds from the trailer. The truck had no issues and the brake controller worked flawlessly.
We arrived at the track around 7:30pm or so and got our wristbands so we could get in and out of the track the whole weekend. They weren't very good at giving any directions on where to go, mainly I think since there were so many groups that were going to be there over the weekend. Luckily we found a NASA tent and spoke to someone, who said we didn't need to be there on Friday and that our instructor would tech our car on Saturday morning before we run. Kind of sucked I somehow missed that info in one of the many e-mails they sent out, but at least we found out where it was and where we needed to go in the morning. Off to the hotel we went.
Saturday was a very early morning. We had to be at the track (which was about 30 minutes away from the hotel) at 7:15am for an all-hands meeting. They basically just welcomed all the drivers/racers to HyperFest, gave some basic info, answered questions, and laid out the schedule. It was very hot even at this early hour, and obviously was not going to get any cooler. I believe it ended up being around 95°, probably not including humidity. Everyone knew this was going to be a rough weekend for racing because of this intense heat.
I then had my first class at 8:00-8:55am. In these classes, they would go over various things, most of which related to safety. These HPDE events are High Performance Driving Events, and are in no way competitive. They are to get you out on a road track, learn how to control your car at high speeds, learn the line and how to drive the course, and learn how to be safe doing this. So the first class we learned about the different flags we could see, different scenarios we might encounter, and the like. We'd definitely get more info from our instructors.
After class, I headed back to my car, made sure I had everything, and went to grid. This is where we met up with our instructors, who then teched our cars. Very easy tech - checked tires, lug nuts, under hood, interior, etc. The instructors have a radio system that we use to communicate with each other. Each person has an ear piece that you just stuff between your ear and helmet padding and it has a boom with a mic on it. This makes hearing very easy, and you don't have to worry about the wind noise from the windows being down or the engine noise.
The first session was a lot of instruction, both positive and constructive criticism. Since I had prior racing experience, I knew somewhat how to attack the road course, but I knew I had A LOT to learn. The first thing we worked on was getting the line down. The line is the fastest path around the course. This involves using all of the course (something I need to work on), turning in at the right time, and hitting every apex.
For me, using all the course was something new, but the idea behind it makes sense. You are fastest in a straight line, or at least when you are not turning. If you don't use all of the course, you are cutting turns way too tight and slowing yourself down because of it. If you use all the course, after hitting an apex you will open up the steering and swing the car all the way out to the outside of the track, which cuts down on how much turning you're doing. This will give you more contact from the tires and make you faster. As I mentioned before, you're fastest in a straight line, but even if there isn't a straight away between two corners, you can make your own straight, depending on how you make your initial approach and attack.
The first session went well for about 10 minutes or so, and then my CEL came on. Great. I had set my boost gauge to show coolant temps as I don't have my actual gauge installed yet. The needle was above halfway, so I knew the CEL was because of coolant temps, which is set to come on at 219°. This was not what I was hoping to see at all, let alone in my first session. I thought I had my cooling system under control as I rarely see above 184° any other time, even during a WOT pull. I also had an 18x10 Carbontrix fiberglass hood vent installed in my hood to help with cooling. So I didn't push the car as hard as I could have and tried to give myself ample space between the car ahead of me so I could get some fresh air to the radiator. The light would come and go, so it was just something I had to keep an eye on. One factor to the heat was probably my turbo. I'm running a small 16g and started out the event running around 20-21psi. For the street this isn't too bad, but for this event it was way too high. It felt great driving it like that, but I was probably throwing out so much heat because of it, in addition to the compressor surge I was getting. It would surge in pretty much every gear constantly. Going down the front straight at 100+mph surging the whole way is not good. So after the first session the MBC was cranked down a turn and a half, which took care of most of the surging from then on.
After the session was over and I parked the car, I walked through the session it with my brother. We then decided to become true DSMers - we put tape all over the front of the car to try and do some ghetto ducting. We had duct and painters tape all over the front after the 2nd session trying to block off any unnecessary holes and direct all possible air through the FMIC. Sadly, it didn't really help. We had forgotten our hose bucket which had some of the foam pipe wrap in it which we wanted to put between the radiator and frame/FMIC to help keep air from leaking out, so we put that on the list of stuff to get that night.
By the end of the first day, I had sat in two 1 hour long classes and was on the track for three 20 minute sessions. The car was still overheating, but was running great. During one of the sessions the needle for the boost gauge (which was displaying coolant) was spiked at the top, so I pulled in the pits and drove slowly to let it cool down a bit. Other than that, I just drove the car, but kept an eye on that gauge.
Sunday morning was a bit later, with the all-hands meeting at 7:45am. I had a bit more time between that and my first class, so my brother and I put in the pipe wrap to try and seal off more of the space between the FMIC and radiator. Again, it didn't really help.
I only ran 2/3 of the sessions on Sunday and attended both classes. I knew if I ran the 3rd session it would only be hotter and I didn't like not being able to push the car for all 20 minutes. I also was low on gas and didn't really want to fill up to not push the car (I used about 3/4 of a tank all weekend). My instructor was also done racing after my 2nd session so I didn't want to keep him around for another 2 hours either. So I helped him load his car, went and loaded my car and packed up the truck and headed home.
Some side notes.
This was my 2nd time out on the Star Spec tires. I'd still give them very high ratings as I did after the autox on them. They held very well, when the track wasn't in bad shape. Sunday wasn't a good day on the track as the drifters made it slick. But Saturday they were doing great. I was pushing them pretty hard and wasn't really getting much noise out of them. Sunday I heard them through most of the turns, but I blame it on the track's condition. It would be interesting to run them back to back with a true slick to see how much better the slicks would be, but for the price, the Star Specs are great!
I had received a free pair of EBC Yellowstuff pads from a racer trial program they were running a little while ago. My brother installed them the weekend before to bed them in a bit. The rears were giving us huge issues, especially with heating up the rotors and wheels. We thought it may have been the calipers, so I got spare ones just in case, but then we swapped on my Axxis Metal Masters and the problem went away. The fronts worked fine and had a very nice grab to them.
I still had some transmission issues (see my Carlisle autox blog for more on this), but since I was rarely in 2nd gear, it wasn't very prevalent or consistent.
One tip when trying to load a lowered car onto a trailer is to use the trailer to help you. You want to get the front of the trailer up higher to create a nice smooth transition between the trailer ramps and the actual deck. You do this by putting down the trailer stabilizer (not sure of the technical term, but it's the part you crank to lower to get the trailer off the hitch ball). Keep cranking it until the front of the trailer starts to lift up, and then just watch your angles.
If you want some nice looking numbers, I got mine from iZoom Graphics. According to NASA and SCCA rule books, there are certain specs your numbers need to have (height, stroke size, color, etc.). I purchased a Single Color Autocross Set with an extra number and extra letter. The sets they sell are very nice and come with stuff for both sides of the car. The extra number is so I have a few more options and the extra letter is for if/when I bump up to the Prepared class in SCCA. If you want the details on what exactly I ordered, let me know. They are high quality magnets and had no problems staying on at speeds of 120+mph which I hit on the front straight numerous times.
For those of you who are wondering what other cars were in my HPDE 1 group, here's a listing.
Summit_Hyperfest_2010_Participant_List
My instructor's car
kainam00's dirty 1g
That is hopefully it, but I'm sure I'll think of something or my brother will remind me of something that I missed, so I might add more to this.
From a cost perspective, HPDE events are not cheap. To give you an idea as to what it costs, here's a bit of a cost breakdown.
HPDE event cost - $350
NASA membership renewal - $50
Hotel - $150
Food - ~$100
Car's Gas - $50 (included a few gallons of Sunoco 116)
Truck's Gas - $140
Entrance Fees - $20 (everyone had to pay, but we were able to get 2/3 of it back)
And I'm sure there were other random costs associated with it. This is just so you guys can see what it takes, as you might not think of everything. I was lucky enough to not have to rent a trailer, which would have been another $200 or so.
Overall, it was a great weekend. I learned A LOT, got to drive on a road course finally, got to see some sick cars, and meet some new people. I can't wait to get out there again!!!
We headed down on Friday June 18th to get teched that night to avoid the big mess Saturday morning. I was able to borrow a trailer from a good friend, which helped out a lot. I was not going to drive the car down, even though it was only about 1.5 hours to the track, for fear of something going wrong. We loaded the car up on the trailer Friday afternoon, packed up the truck bed with all the stuff we thought we'd need in any situation, and headed out. This was my first time trailering anything, so I was a bit nervous. I was pulling the car with a '07 Dodge Ram 2500, so wasn't worried that the truck would have any problems. It has a hitch setup to pull 10k lbs. so no issues there either. My brother had installed a MaxBrake electric/hydraulic brake controller the weekend before, so we were set. Once I got moving, I pretty much forgot the car was behind the truck, other than some rattling sounds from the trailer. The truck had no issues and the brake controller worked flawlessly.
We arrived at the track around 7:30pm or so and got our wristbands so we could get in and out of the track the whole weekend. They weren't very good at giving any directions on where to go, mainly I think since there were so many groups that were going to be there over the weekend. Luckily we found a NASA tent and spoke to someone, who said we didn't need to be there on Friday and that our instructor would tech our car on Saturday morning before we run. Kind of sucked I somehow missed that info in one of the many e-mails they sent out, but at least we found out where it was and where we needed to go in the morning. Off to the hotel we went.
Saturday was a very early morning. We had to be at the track (which was about 30 minutes away from the hotel) at 7:15am for an all-hands meeting. They basically just welcomed all the drivers/racers to HyperFest, gave some basic info, answered questions, and laid out the schedule. It was very hot even at this early hour, and obviously was not going to get any cooler. I believe it ended up being around 95°, probably not including humidity. Everyone knew this was going to be a rough weekend for racing because of this intense heat.
I then had my first class at 8:00-8:55am. In these classes, they would go over various things, most of which related to safety. These HPDE events are High Performance Driving Events, and are in no way competitive. They are to get you out on a road track, learn how to control your car at high speeds, learn the line and how to drive the course, and learn how to be safe doing this. So the first class we learned about the different flags we could see, different scenarios we might encounter, and the like. We'd definitely get more info from our instructors.
After class, I headed back to my car, made sure I had everything, and went to grid. This is where we met up with our instructors, who then teched our cars. Very easy tech - checked tires, lug nuts, under hood, interior, etc. The instructors have a radio system that we use to communicate with each other. Each person has an ear piece that you just stuff between your ear and helmet padding and it has a boom with a mic on it. This makes hearing very easy, and you don't have to worry about the wind noise from the windows being down or the engine noise.
The first session was a lot of instruction, both positive and constructive criticism. Since I had prior racing experience, I knew somewhat how to attack the road course, but I knew I had A LOT to learn. The first thing we worked on was getting the line down. The line is the fastest path around the course. This involves using all of the course (something I need to work on), turning in at the right time, and hitting every apex.
For me, using all the course was something new, but the idea behind it makes sense. You are fastest in a straight line, or at least when you are not turning. If you don't use all of the course, you are cutting turns way too tight and slowing yourself down because of it. If you use all the course, after hitting an apex you will open up the steering and swing the car all the way out to the outside of the track, which cuts down on how much turning you're doing. This will give you more contact from the tires and make you faster. As I mentioned before, you're fastest in a straight line, but even if there isn't a straight away between two corners, you can make your own straight, depending on how you make your initial approach and attack.
The first session went well for about 10 minutes or so, and then my CEL came on. Great. I had set my boost gauge to show coolant temps as I don't have my actual gauge installed yet. The needle was above halfway, so I knew the CEL was because of coolant temps, which is set to come on at 219°. This was not what I was hoping to see at all, let alone in my first session. I thought I had my cooling system under control as I rarely see above 184° any other time, even during a WOT pull. I also had an 18x10 Carbontrix fiberglass hood vent installed in my hood to help with cooling. So I didn't push the car as hard as I could have and tried to give myself ample space between the car ahead of me so I could get some fresh air to the radiator. The light would come and go, so it was just something I had to keep an eye on. One factor to the heat was probably my turbo. I'm running a small 16g and started out the event running around 20-21psi. For the street this isn't too bad, but for this event it was way too high. It felt great driving it like that, but I was probably throwing out so much heat because of it, in addition to the compressor surge I was getting. It would surge in pretty much every gear constantly. Going down the front straight at 100+mph surging the whole way is not good. So after the first session the MBC was cranked down a turn and a half, which took care of most of the surging from then on.
After the session was over and I parked the car, I walked through the session it with my brother. We then decided to become true DSMers - we put tape all over the front of the car to try and do some ghetto ducting. We had duct and painters tape all over the front after the 2nd session trying to block off any unnecessary holes and direct all possible air through the FMIC. Sadly, it didn't really help. We had forgotten our hose bucket which had some of the foam pipe wrap in it which we wanted to put between the radiator and frame/FMIC to help keep air from leaking out, so we put that on the list of stuff to get that night.
By the end of the first day, I had sat in two 1 hour long classes and was on the track for three 20 minute sessions. The car was still overheating, but was running great. During one of the sessions the needle for the boost gauge (which was displaying coolant) was spiked at the top, so I pulled in the pits and drove slowly to let it cool down a bit. Other than that, I just drove the car, but kept an eye on that gauge.
Sunday morning was a bit later, with the all-hands meeting at 7:45am. I had a bit more time between that and my first class, so my brother and I put in the pipe wrap to try and seal off more of the space between the FMIC and radiator. Again, it didn't really help.
I only ran 2/3 of the sessions on Sunday and attended both classes. I knew if I ran the 3rd session it would only be hotter and I didn't like not being able to push the car for all 20 minutes. I also was low on gas and didn't really want to fill up to not push the car (I used about 3/4 of a tank all weekend). My instructor was also done racing after my 2nd session so I didn't want to keep him around for another 2 hours either. So I helped him load his car, went and loaded my car and packed up the truck and headed home.
Some side notes.
This was my 2nd time out on the Star Spec tires. I'd still give them very high ratings as I did after the autox on them. They held very well, when the track wasn't in bad shape. Sunday wasn't a good day on the track as the drifters made it slick. But Saturday they were doing great. I was pushing them pretty hard and wasn't really getting much noise out of them. Sunday I heard them through most of the turns, but I blame it on the track's condition. It would be interesting to run them back to back with a true slick to see how much better the slicks would be, but for the price, the Star Specs are great!
I had received a free pair of EBC Yellowstuff pads from a racer trial program they were running a little while ago. My brother installed them the weekend before to bed them in a bit. The rears were giving us huge issues, especially with heating up the rotors and wheels. We thought it may have been the calipers, so I got spare ones just in case, but then we swapped on my Axxis Metal Masters and the problem went away. The fronts worked fine and had a very nice grab to them.
I still had some transmission issues (see my Carlisle autox blog for more on this), but since I was rarely in 2nd gear, it wasn't very prevalent or consistent.
One tip when trying to load a lowered car onto a trailer is to use the trailer to help you. You want to get the front of the trailer up higher to create a nice smooth transition between the trailer ramps and the actual deck. You do this by putting down the trailer stabilizer (not sure of the technical term, but it's the part you crank to lower to get the trailer off the hitch ball). Keep cranking it until the front of the trailer starts to lift up, and then just watch your angles.
If you want some nice looking numbers, I got mine from iZoom Graphics. According to NASA and SCCA rule books, there are certain specs your numbers need to have (height, stroke size, color, etc.). I purchased a Single Color Autocross Set with an extra number and extra letter. The sets they sell are very nice and come with stuff for both sides of the car. The extra number is so I have a few more options and the extra letter is for if/when I bump up to the Prepared class in SCCA. If you want the details on what exactly I ordered, let me know. They are high quality magnets and had no problems staying on at speeds of 120+mph which I hit on the front straight numerous times.
For those of you who are wondering what other cars were in my HPDE 1 group, here's a listing.
Summit_Hyperfest_2010_Participant_List
My instructor's car
kainam00's dirty 1g
That is hopefully it, but I'm sure I'll think of something or my brother will remind me of something that I missed, so I might add more to this.
From a cost perspective, HPDE events are not cheap. To give you an idea as to what it costs, here's a bit of a cost breakdown.
HPDE event cost - $350
NASA membership renewal - $50
Hotel - $150
Food - ~$100
Car's Gas - $50 (included a few gallons of Sunoco 116)
Truck's Gas - $140
Entrance Fees - $20 (everyone had to pay, but we were able to get 2/3 of it back)
And I'm sure there were other random costs associated with it. This is just so you guys can see what it takes, as you might not think of everything. I was lucky enough to not have to rent a trailer, which would have been another $200 or so.
Overall, it was a great weekend. I learned A LOT, got to drive on a road course finally, got to see some sick cars, and meet some new people. I can't wait to get out there again!!!
Total Comments 17
Comments
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Looks like a good time man, sorry to hear about the overheating issues. What are your plans now to deal with cooling ?Posted 06-27-2010 at 01:06 PM by rocafellafw
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I walked past your car when it was parked and was looking for the driver but I guess I had missed you. I enjoyed actually watching a 2g racing. If I remember correctly you were the one with the turbo badge on the back, and that really made me laugh in a good way.Posted 06-27-2010 at 01:12 PM by MattUnderwood
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First plan is to do an external oil cooler. One of the guys working there (D_Eclipse9916) used to have a 2g that he raced and had the same issues at first. He said going external helped a lot as the oil would transfer a lot of heat to the coolant. Then I might do some proper ducting.Quote:Originally Posted by rocafellafw
Looks like a good time man, sorry to hear about the overheating issues. What are your plans now to deal with cooling ?
Did you see anyone? I know my brother said someone came up and was talking to him and my other friend while I was in class.Quote:Originally Posted by MattUnderwood
I walked past your car when it was parked and was looking for the driver but I guess I had missed you. I enjoyed actually watching a 2g racing. If I remember correctly you were the one with the turbo badge on the back, and that really made me laugh in a good way.
Yep, I've got the turbo badge on the rear center section of the tail lights. Glad you were there and able to see the car!Posted 06-27-2010 at 01:55 PM by snowborder714
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That looks like a lot of fun Brian!
Posted 06-27-2010 at 04:11 PM by VTEC_THIS 
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Good Review. Hope to see you out at more Mid-Atlantic events. Let me know if you ever decide to do a NJMP event late this year or early next year, I really want to do NJMP. Unfortunately MA doesnt do NJMP. If you decide to do the Evo 3 oil filter housing, I found one of the adapter pieces in my tool box if you want it for free. Its only 15 bucks, but hey 15 bucks is 15 bucks that can go towards an entry fee!Posted 06-27-2010 at 04:20 PM by D_Eclipse9916
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Whoa! If you look at your 5th picture, we camped right across the little path from you, by the fence where that canopy is on Friday night! We moved into the "rally compound" across the track in the morning, but I did notice a DSM parked there, just didn't connect the two. I wish I knew that was you, I would have said hiPosted 06-27-2010 at 06:34 PM by kainam00
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I didn't see anyone but my friends didn't wanna sit and let me look at the car for long because they wanted to keep looking at the honda's. And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a porsche turbo badge? And yeah I actually looked forward to seeing another DSM driving.Quote:Originally Posted by snowborder714
Did you see anyone? I know my brother said someone came up and was talking to him and my other friend while I was in class.
Yep, I've got the turbo badge on the rear center section of the tail lights. Glad you were there and able to see the car!Posted 06-27-2010 at 09:12 PM by MattUnderwood
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Thanks Keri, it was a lot of fun! I can't wait to get back out!!
I hope to be out at more, but won't be until I do something about the cooling issue.Quote:Originally Posted by D_Eclipse9916
Good Review. Hope to see you out at more Mid-Atlantic events. Let me know if you ever decide to do a NJMP event late this year or early next year, I really want to do NJMP. Unfortunately MA doesnt do NJMP. If you decide to do the Evo 3 oil filter housing, I found one of the adapter pieces in my tool box if you want it for free. Its only 15 bucks, but hey 15 bucks is 15 bucks that can go towards an entry fee!
I'd love to run NJMP! It was in the plans for this year initially, until I saw how much it was. I think it's over $300 for one day and over $500 for two! So we'll see - maybe that'll be next year.
I'll let you know about the fitting. Eric and I are trying to figure out if we can use an Evo 8/9 housing potentially.
Yep, my brother and I saw your car on the trailer there on Friday when we pulled in, but no one was around. I recognized your car immediately and wished I could have seen you run. My brother has a couple pictures (I'll add one to the blog) of your car all mudded upQuote:Originally Posted by kainam00
Whoa! If you look at your 5th picture, we camped right across the little path from you, by the fence where that canopy is on Friday night! We moved into the "rally compound" across the track in the morning, but I did notice a DSM parked there, just didn't connect the two. I wish I knew that was you, I would have said hi
Ah, ok. We might have been walking around or something then. You're correct that it's a Porsche badge. The previous owner put it on there, but I think it looks pretty good.Quote:Originally Posted by MattUnderwood
I didn't see anyone but my friends didn't wanna sit and let me look at the car for long because they wanted to keep looking at the honda's. And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a porsche turbo badge? And yeah I actually looked forward to seeing another DSM driving.Posted 06-27-2010 at 10:16 PM by snowborder714
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Hey, I was there too but my dad was driving a red 240sx in HPDE3. I remember seeing your car though. Looked good coming around turn 10, which is where we were parked. Oil cooler should definitely help. At least on our 240, combined with a bigger oil pan, it helped bring down the water temps by 20*-30*. Now with our vented hood and bigger fans we don't see coolant temps above 200* and oil temps don't go above 220* even through hyperfest.
Hope to see you out there again. I'll be sure to come by and say hi.Posted 06-28-2010 at 07:49 AM by 91gst
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I like those Axxis Metal Masters for on the street and they do a good job for AutoX too.Posted 06-28-2010 at 11:31 AM by knochgoon24
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Glad to hear the cooler worked for you as wellQuote:Originally Posted by 91gst
Hey, I was there too but my dad was driving a red 240sx in HPDE3. I remember seeing your car though. Looked good coming around turn 10, which is where we were parked. Oil cooler should definitely help. At least on our 240, combined with a bigger oil pan, it helped bring down the water temps by 20*-30*. Now with our vented hood and bigger fans we don't see coolant temps above 200* and oil temps don't go above 220* even through hyperfest.
Hope to see you out there again. I'll be sure to come by and say hi. Stop by and say hi for sure!
Same here!! However, I had the EBC pads and didn't want to completely wear out the Axxis ones, so I figured I'd try them.Quote:Originally Posted by knochgoon24
I like those Axxis Metal Masters for on the street and they do a good job for AutoX too.Posted 06-28-2010 at 12:46 PM by snowborder714
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IMO, the new EBC pads stopped better than the used Axxis ones. It stopped even harder with the EBC rears in too, but that might have something to do with them constantly riding haha. I still think the pads are defects, they were locking up the rear wheels (making the car hard to move from a stop) and started smoking during bed-in and even just driving without braking!
And both of them put my stupid Hawk HPS pads to shame
Posted 06-28-2010 at 12:50 PM by turbosax2
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Added picture of kainam00's dirty 1g!Posted 06-28-2010 at 10:08 PM by snowborder714
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The porsche badge is one of the best parts of the car! We left before the final round of the drift, but I wish I would have stayed because I knew the real big guy who got jumped by 3 people after one sucker punched the other and he was trying to break it up from what I've heard. Either way it was a fun time this year. Lets hope next year is even better!Posted 06-29-2010 at 09:24 AM by MattUnderwood
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Haha, a few of us watched the video of that fight in the first class on Sunday. It was already up on YouTube!Posted 06-29-2010 at 01:44 PM by snowborder714
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U MAKE US PROOOOUUUUDDD !!!!!!!!!!!Posted 07-02-2010 at 09:45 AM by TimelessDSM
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Thank you!Posted 07-08-2010 at 02:01 PM by snowborder714
