First Start on Built Motor
Posted 08-06-2008 at 05:05 PM by boosted spartan
I stumbled into a DSM Website made by an enthusiast and one thing I read made me go all dumb-founded, supposedly it was written by Dave Buschur himself sometime ago or whatnot I would like to get this info out as it seems its sort-of different from what I have been told as far as starting a brand-new built motor goes.
I would like to know what kind of "Special Lube" is used for filling up the crank so I can buy myself a bottle or two.
the link is below if you would like to check out the website, alot of useful info there.
http://www.4g63turbo.com/
As found on the website:
"The 4g63 is not a small block Chevy. You do NOT crank it with the fuel disconnected or the ignition unplugged to prime the oiling system. If you truly wanted to try and prime the oiling system before starting a new engine you would need to leave the timing belt off and crank the oil pump separately. Same thing if you DID have a small block Chevy, you'd spin the oil pump through the distributor hole.
This next stuff applies to OUR ENGINES. I don't care about some other shop or some other machine shop that did YOUR work. Don't ask as I could care less.
For our engines. IF you put your head on, timed it etc. and installed the engine in your car AND you have everything exactly right, the engine should start and run almost immediately after trying to start it. When it does hold the engine at around 1500-2000 rpm and let it stay there. Check it for leaks while it is doing this, check it for anything out of the ordinary. If you are using a standalone check the AFR's, look at the knock count etc. Dial in your AFR's a little so it is where it needs to be to run at this RPM. Hopefully you have a map that is right in the first place and you can just let it run. While the car is warming up the lifters will quiet down as the oil pressure builds and the air gets out of the lifters. Check the coolant, watch the coolant temps.
DO NOT just crank the engine to attempt to build oil pressure, it WILL BUILD INSTANTLY IF THE CAR STARTS.
ALL of our engines are built/assembled with a special lube. It is very sticky. I basically fill the crank shaft with it, so there is quite a bit of lube there and everything is very well coated. The engine could probably actually run with NO oil in it for a few minutes with no damage, we don't want that obviously. Point is to TRIPLE check every single thing on the car first and then it should start instantly and run.
Once you are sure there are no leaks of any type and everything is tight and triple checked again you can either start some low throttle tuning or go for a drive.
As long as everything is 100% I could care less about a break in. Engines built here/assembled here and installed here are broken in on the dyno about 90% of the time. I have maps perfected for any combination we have. So the car is checked, loaded on the dyno. The idle, part throttle tuning is gone over and a few miles are put on the car at light loads to make sure it runs great and the AFR's are good. I do all the fuel mileage calibrations right on the dyno too. When this is done, the car is looked over again and then the tuning at low boost levels (20 psi or whatever) is done. I generally do the pump gas tunes first so the boost levels are lowest. As soon as they are done then the car is turned up and tuned on race gas if that is part of the build.
It is nothing to have a car with less than 10 miles on it at 40 psi of boost and 10,000 rpm. If it is going to fail then it is going to fail at that point and running it for 2,000 miles (whatever) easy is not going to change that. Running an engine for 2,000 miles to break it in is complete bullshit. It's most companies ways of getting you to take 6 months to be ready to run the car hard and by then they hope the warranty is over."
David Buschur
__________________
David Buschur
President
Buschur Racing, Inc.
I would like to know what kind of "Special Lube" is used for filling up the crank so I can buy myself a bottle or two.
the link is below if you would like to check out the website, alot of useful info there.
http://www.4g63turbo.com/
As found on the website:
"The 4g63 is not a small block Chevy. You do NOT crank it with the fuel disconnected or the ignition unplugged to prime the oiling system. If you truly wanted to try and prime the oiling system before starting a new engine you would need to leave the timing belt off and crank the oil pump separately. Same thing if you DID have a small block Chevy, you'd spin the oil pump through the distributor hole.
This next stuff applies to OUR ENGINES. I don't care about some other shop or some other machine shop that did YOUR work. Don't ask as I could care less.
For our engines. IF you put your head on, timed it etc. and installed the engine in your car AND you have everything exactly right, the engine should start and run almost immediately after trying to start it. When it does hold the engine at around 1500-2000 rpm and let it stay there. Check it for leaks while it is doing this, check it for anything out of the ordinary. If you are using a standalone check the AFR's, look at the knock count etc. Dial in your AFR's a little so it is where it needs to be to run at this RPM. Hopefully you have a map that is right in the first place and you can just let it run. While the car is warming up the lifters will quiet down as the oil pressure builds and the air gets out of the lifters. Check the coolant, watch the coolant temps.
DO NOT just crank the engine to attempt to build oil pressure, it WILL BUILD INSTANTLY IF THE CAR STARTS.
ALL of our engines are built/assembled with a special lube. It is very sticky. I basically fill the crank shaft with it, so there is quite a bit of lube there and everything is very well coated. The engine could probably actually run with NO oil in it for a few minutes with no damage, we don't want that obviously. Point is to TRIPLE check every single thing on the car first and then it should start instantly and run.
Once you are sure there are no leaks of any type and everything is tight and triple checked again you can either start some low throttle tuning or go for a drive.
As long as everything is 100% I could care less about a break in. Engines built here/assembled here and installed here are broken in on the dyno about 90% of the time. I have maps perfected for any combination we have. So the car is checked, loaded on the dyno. The idle, part throttle tuning is gone over and a few miles are put on the car at light loads to make sure it runs great and the AFR's are good. I do all the fuel mileage calibrations right on the dyno too. When this is done, the car is looked over again and then the tuning at low boost levels (20 psi or whatever) is done. I generally do the pump gas tunes first so the boost levels are lowest. As soon as they are done then the car is turned up and tuned on race gas if that is part of the build.
It is nothing to have a car with less than 10 miles on it at 40 psi of boost and 10,000 rpm. If it is going to fail then it is going to fail at that point and running it for 2,000 miles (whatever) easy is not going to change that. Running an engine for 2,000 miles to break it in is complete bullshit. It's most companies ways of getting you to take 6 months to be ready to run the car hard and by then they hope the warranty is over."
David Buschur
__________________
David Buschur
President
Buschur Racing, Inc.
Total Comments 11
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I see the logic in this since If something is wrong its going to fail regardless of break in period...
At the MOST extreme conditions Known in racing "top Fuel" drag racing, they run with little more than a test fire, and the tolerance for mistakes is 0 in that caliber of motor building.... |
Posted 08-06-2008 at 07:51 PM by 4Motion4g63
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Thats a good website, Thanks! I'm not new to the Dsm but I am new to the Turbo and the Turbo 101 really clarified things. Awesome
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Posted 08-06-2008 at 07:52 PM by eclipser93
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Most likely they were just talking about any old assembly lube to pack the crankshaft with.
This stuff is what i use. http://www.northernautoparts.com/Pro...ctModelId=1660 |
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Posted 08-06-2008 at 08:03 PM by bluegs03
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I think it still is a good practice to spin the oil pump in case you missed any spots in lubing.
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Posted 08-06-2008 at 10:38 PM by crimsondragon
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As long as the main bearings, rod bearings, and camshaft journals have a good amount of petroluim lube on them you will be just fine for start up.
You really don't need to "prime" these engines, but it does help alot with finding plugs or gaskets that you may have missed. The oil pump will produce oil pressure within a few seconds of start up if there is oil in the pan. If your worried about lube issuses, an engine with just a drop of oil on each bearing can last without oil at idle for over a minuet. |
Posted 08-07-2008 at 03:06 PM by turbo90gsx
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crazy reading this...although a bunch of honda guys that run awfully fast from around here have told me the same thing about break in.
friend of mine has a CRX that hit the 9's and I told him about my build and how I wanted to take it easy at first...he said listen, let it idle for a little, drive it regular for the first day. after that, just rip on it...if its going to break again...babying it at first doesnt make a difference, because the first time it sees load its going to break ANYWAY. as long as it's put together right, run the car regularly...it'll be fine |
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Posted 08-07-2008 at 04:19 PM by KPEclipse
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so it is ok to fill the crank with that lube stuff??
what is a good assembly lube i can get at autozone, advance auto parts, oreillys, or NAPA. thanks. i got alot of great replies, i want to try that way the way of beating on it after a day of driving and see what the outcome is. |
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Posted 08-07-2008 at 04:33 PM by boosted spartan
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I always figured that if I drop in a rebuilt engine, I'd do Motoman's breakin...which is basically run it as hard as possible for like 20 mins or so with cool down time in between.
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Posted 08-07-2008 at 09:27 PM by crimsondragon
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Exactly what I was going to say, here's a link to what crimsondragons refering to incase someone doesn't know where to find it:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm |
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Posted 08-07-2008 at 09:40 PM by VTEC_THIS
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that method you posted in the link, have you or anyone you know used it with good results??
im just asking around because i need to do as much research as i can before the engine is done and in the car. edit: wow after reading that link i might break mine in like that. GREAT FIND!! good info there. |
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Posted 08-08-2008 at 03:26 PM by boosted spartan
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the motoman break in is how i was breaking in the rebuilt motor before i ran into some trouble...
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Posted 08-11-2008 at 09:18 AM by KPEclipse
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Recent Blog Entries by boosted spartan
- First Start on Built Motor (08-06-2008)
- Rod and Main Bearings (08-04-2008)
