1G Installing a turbo 4g63 into an NT 4g63

[Wil]

There was talk about breaking the ring lands. But there are even 2.4L NT motors out there running fine with up to 20psi. Any piston is prone to cracking ring lands, but it seems the trick is to tune moderately with stock NT motors.

After sticking the turbo setup in Rev's car we noticed part throttle knock. Timing was retarded till it went away. The car is fast even at 10psi (according to Rev's boost gauge -- 14b, stock SMIC).

We used a logger to check for fuel problems and it seems even up to 85 mph the stock injectors and fuel pump were keeping up fine. I don't recommend running the 1/4 mile like this though. Definitely getting bigger injectors is the next best move now that he has a SAFC.

Wil
GSX -- 400 all-whp (on 93 octane)

 

[Wil]

The biggest problem with just sticking a turbo on an NT is running too much knock. Turbo motors come with knock sensors to help fight this. But without a knock sensor and running higher compression pistons to boot it is easy to see how it could be easy to self destruct the NT motor.

Running good gas and as much octane as you possible definitely helps. But as soon as you use bad gas the NT motor has no way to defend against this. Keeping a close ear for knock is very important.

Wil

 

[92GS-T'd]

For you guys that completed the swap, how many of you are running the fuel pressure solenoid?? Is it really necessary?? Any pics of where it should be mounted??

 

[mavisky]

i'm running it, but only because i didn't know it wasn't that useful before i wired it up.

 

[92GS-T'd]

Mavisky got any pics of where you mounted that damn fuel pressure solenoid?? Also did you have to disconnect any of the other solenoids that were used to run the car as a non turbo when adding the fuel pressure solenoid??

 

[mavisky]

no i didn't remove any of the nt stuff.

the fps is located where another solenoid already is at. (it's the highlighted oval)

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[92GS-T'd]

So you just unplugged the original soleoid and plugged in the solenoid from the turbo fuel pressure solenoid. Right?? Thanks man those pics really pointed me in the right direction.

 

[mavisky]

no

there is originally only one solenoid above there but there are two openings. so i wired in the fps and then ran the appropiate vacuum hoses to it. i just used that as a place to mount it.

 

[92GS-T'd]

Thanks man that clears everything up

 

[talon69ca]

I recently found a turbo in a wrecking yard. The engine is smoking and knocking but the the turbo is believed to be good. I was told I could pick whatever I wanted off the car except the head. Can I take the turbo and all related accessories and mount them on my car? I can have everything for $150. Canadian. (So thats like what? $10.00 U.S?) Any help would be great. Cause I have to move quick!

 

[TimG]

Hey man. It doesn't sound like a good deal at all. Kinda like that.
So what reckage yard is allowing you to take all that for $150? I need directions and times they are open.

 

[Wil]

No such thing as a good turbo off a smoking knocking motor. Consider this: turbo bearings are one of the smallest bearings but see lots more heat and spin 100 times faster. I can guarantee that turbo is junk... meaning it would cost more to rebuild it than to buy a new one. In fact, if you could rebuild it youself I bet you might just save yourself $50 compared to a new one. Leave that car alone. I wouldn't even bother rebuilding that motor. You could certainly find cheaper motors than what a machine shop would charge you in labor just to fix it. Or what it would cost in parts. Not even the head is worth buying off that car.

Wil

 

[TimG]

He is also refering to the exhaust manifold, O2 sensor housing, knock sensor, ECU, BOV, IC and piping, FPR, fuel pump, injectors, resistor pack, t-body, intake... etc. Good deal, for that much change.

 

[92GS-T'd]

One more electrical question for all you swap gurus!! When wiring in the wastegate solenoid I know the orange wire runs back to pin 105, but how the hell are you supposed to ground it. The only other wire is a red power wire???

 

[92GS-T'd]

c'mon i know someone knows the answer to this question!!

 

[mavisky]

our cars are different than most, they use a "switch on ground" method to controlling everything (such as the injectors). one wire needs to go to power, and the other wire will ground out through the ecu.

 

[92GS-T'd]

An lemme guess you ran that power through the camshaft position sensor?? Right. Thanks for all your help Mavisky

 

[mavisky]

listen ass believe me or not, but my car is running, and that's how its wired. look at the goddamn schematics link i posted up on the first page. it clearly shows one hot wire going through the wastegate solenoid valve and one wire clearly grounding out to the ecu. if you think in all your electrical wisdom that you can get it to function in some other manner then by all means prove me wrong, i'll be waiting.

 

[92GS-T'd]

Man, i believe you. My guess was that the wastegate solenoid did ground out through the ecu. When I said thanks alot i meant it. You are the only guy that has truly answered my questions about the conversion. Sorry about the misunderstanding I wasnt being sarcastic.

 

[Stingray90]

Thanx for all the info this far!!

OK, this is a little uclear for me too. If the ECU supplies the ground for the BCS (orange wire to pin 105) and the FPS (white wire to pin 57), then why do we ground the red wires of the two solenoids? I believe this is what 92GS-T'd was asking.
Wouldn't it make sense to power these wires like the white wire going into the injector resistor pack?
Also, did anyone else connect the IRP's white wire to the Thick Red wire in the wiring harness on the intake manifold w/good results?

 

[mavisky]

sorry about the confusion as well, apparently there still isn't a way to convey sarcasm/non-sarcasm well across the internet.

and stingray 90, you are right, and that's what i was mentioning above. you don't ground those two wires. one from each solenoid goes to the ecu to be grounded, and the other from each solenoid has to draw power from somewhere (that's ultimately up to you).

where are you guys getting the idea that you should ground all those wires, did i mess up the write up somehow or was it somewhere else you saw it. if you could find it for me i'll make sure to correct it.

 

[92GS-T'd]

THis is how i have modified my n/t wire harness to make it work with the turbo motor and ecu.
1) Pin 6 Maf wire
2) Pin 9 Knock wire
3) Pin 57 Fuel Pressure solenoid
4) Pin 105 Wastegate Solenoid
5) Injector resistor pack

Instead of hardwiring these things in i used all original solenoids. For the extra Maf wire i simply matched up the colors for the turbo Maf solenoid and the one that was missing (green/white) I ran back to the #6 pinout. For the knock sensor I ran the white wire back to the ecu at pin #9 and the black i grounded to a bolt nearby on the block. For the fuel pressure solenoid I ran the white wire back to the ecu at pin # 57 and was planning on grounding one of the remaining black wires ( not even sure if that is right)?? The wastegate solenoid orange wire was ran back to the ecu at pin #105, the remaining power wire (red wire) i am planning on drawing power through the camshaft position sensor like the schematics say. As far as that damn injector resistor pack goes i used the original connecting solenoid and ran each wire to the injector wires that don't run back to the ecu I assume these are the positive wires, and i tapped the power wire of course. That is a complete list of the electrical work i did to turn my n/t harness into a turbo one. Some of my main concerns lie within grounding the fuel pressure solenoid and knock sensor. Does the fuel pressure solenoid also ground at through the ecu?? If so, then why doesn't the knock sensor also ground through the ecu?? My car should be started soon for the first time in eight months and after thousands of dollars of modifications. This is why I am just trying to make sure all my electrical work is correct. Again Mavisky sorry about all the confusion, it is because of your imaginestation link and this thread that i have been able to convert my car to turbo. So thanks. Hopefully i will have pics soon!!!

 

[mavisky]

i'll have to double check on the last wire for the fps but the knock sensor does just ground out to anything local, i think i used one of the throttle cable bracket bolts on my car.

other than that everything sounds fine. now i just need to get mine running right for the shootout so i can finally break into the 13's, hopefully some of the people reading this thread will join me

 

[TimG]

I'll be there Mav. I just need a Injector resistor pack, FMIC kit, VR4 fuel pump and some misc wiring. My full 3" exhaust should be flowing pretty good by then.

My question is about the injector resistor pack though. What do we do about the original wires which are supposed to connect to the injectors from the original wiring harness? The diagram on the 1st page doesn't show. Do we just rip them out and leave the one going back to the ECU?

I just need to find some people to go with. Hotel room is set up, I just need people...

 

[mavisky]

the extra wires from the injectors (the hot wires that get re-routed to the resistor pack) on 3 of them they just sit there doing nothing.

by far this resistor pack is one of the more complicated things on this swap.