MY 420a race car!!!!! - Page 9

DSM-ZERO · 07-08-2007, 01:49 PM

Also Im going to run Co2 to the tops of my Wastegatwates to help control boost

The added pressure of the Co2 will help from stop boost creep on the top end. I can also program the Co2 and my boost controller to adjust boost at any rpm and gear soooo my boost will be right on target........The shop has been testing this form of boost control for some time now and they have proven Dyno results that show plus 70hp at the same boost levels....

I cant wait to get home and race this thing
also
more pics soon

VelocitàPaola · 07-08-2007, 02:40 PM

So... it's a really sophisticated boost control system that adds horsepower somehow?

XMasta19 · 07-08-2007, 02:52 PM

That's what I got from his post...

bullettdsm · 07-08-2007, 02:56 PM

OK, Zero, now you lost me, how is the boost controller adding power by maintaining boost levels?

MB

DSM-ZERO · 07-08-2007, 05:14 PM

i will be able to run the lowest spring possible and the Co2 to control pressure to suit my needs. IT will allow me to boost down low off the line and bring in the boost and horsepower exactly how i want it on the top end. The nice thing is with co2 you dont have to rely and wait on manifold pressure to build up with the Co2 its already there and all base settings can be tuned from inside my car. Controlling boost pressure is one of the most important factors in a car with limited traction.

in all it basicly allows me to run the a very low springs in the Gates for low boost of the line.
And on the top end instead of waiting on manifold pressure to build up the Co2 will trick the gates in to thinking its alredy at the desired boost level.....
soooo
I can keep the gates closed until the very very last second until the Co2 kicks in and adjust boost to what i want....

Which is why it will give me more HP....Because.... in stead of the gates graduly opeaning and leaking exhaust due to manifold pressure.
The Co2 will do the job..

now im not really the best in explaning everything it still is new to me too.

WE also might experiment with using a wastegate on the cold side OR boost pipe this is soo i can have the turbo screaming off the line at 40psi BUT only XX amount of boost is going into the motor due to the gate on the boost pipe....

XMasta19 · 07-08-2007, 07:35 PM

So is that something that you just explained, or is this what the guys at the shop are telling you? This thread confuses me...I'm just awaiting the finished product.

DSM-ZERO · 07-08-2007, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XMasta19

So is that something that you just explained, or is this what the guys at the shop are telling you? This thread confuses me...I'm just awaiting the finished product.

That is how I explain it. In my simple terms
The guys at the shop can talk lightyears above what i know.

BrokenTsi · 07-08-2007, 08:07 PM

Im not sure why you'd gain HP. Youd just be able to control the boost and possibly move the powerband and help with traction... I dont see how steadier control and the ability to be more precise with adjustment would gain any sort of HP....

XMasta19 · 07-09-2007, 10:03 AM

No more questioning his intelligence...the shop is building a monster, period. We'll all see what happens when they're finally done and he pays his enormous bill hehe. Personally, if this car doesn't go 9's, I'll be disappointed

VelocitàPaola · 07-09-2007, 10:08 AM

Again... no offense, but it's not his intelligence we're questioning, it's the shop's. They seem to be selling him "the best and the greatest" with an outrageous price tag when something as simple as a staged Profec would've worked just fine... I think a little questioning would be good. There's something to be said for investing the right amount of money into a project car, but there's also something to be said for blindly installing parts for greater performance but with no empirical results to prove such.

XMasta19 · 07-09-2007, 10:30 AM

Oh I know...trust me, but I'm not the one to say anything. I've had questions about the build since page 1, but like I said it's not my place. He's the one happily dumping all the money and confidence into this shop. I wouldn't want him to question them bout somethin, then bam they get pissed off or what not...who knows what could happen ya know. I figure, just let the shop build it the way they think is all bad ass, and when they gotta go back to the drawing board later, they'll realize the mistakes or controversies then. It's kinda hard to raise questions when he really has no clue what's going on with the build minus what they tell him everything is for and what it costs.

EDIT: Like I said, if this car isn't deep in the 9's, I'll be disappointed. In no time, there should be more and more 420a's emerging into the world of fast. Homeboys in vegas are knockin on 10's with just a decent turbo setup, great tune, slicks, and nice driving. What's to say more of us can't be in that same situation with just a little money devoted in the right areas.

Blitzeclips · 07-09-2007, 10:37 AM

I am still confused about the whole co2 thing. I'm hesitant to even take a stab at it actually. From what it sounds like, the wastegate will be independant to the manifold charge because that manifold charge can be replaced by the co2. Rather then waiting for the gate to open or close, he can control it by charging it with co2. So the wastegate stays closed under high boost, and only opens on command. Same thing with low boost except he can add the charge for an earlier boost response.

Either that or he's creating some sort of vaccuum to pull the pressure into the wastegate quicker, so it thinks theres more pressure then there is?

I don't know.

Is this co2 going to be controlled manually or set via module/program supported in the boost controller/logger?

knightrider4 · 07-09-2007, 10:57 AM

Plain and simple the Co2 is the setup he needs to run for the hp he is going to make. Most guys in sfwd use C02 to control boost. When you are talking about making large amounts of power wastegate springs dont like it and C02 is the best way to control boost at these high horsepower levels. Our shop car integra which will be running sfwd will be using a similar set up. Very nice set up i am contemplating going the same route for next season and building a 420a sfwd car. can't wait to see the finished product.

Blitzeclips · 07-09-2007, 11:04 AM

Sounds close. I don't think it will ADD horsepower. I think it will retain the horsepower lost through the wastegate.

VelocitàPaola · 07-09-2007, 11:11 AM

You're correct Blitz... it's not adding horsepower, just aiding his launch times.

What I don't understand is why you'd stick with gas actuation if you're so concerned with reaction times. Electronic actuation is available, more easily controllable, and it reacts at the speed of light.

knightrider4 · 07-09-2007, 11:13 AM

you might have answered this already somewhere in the post, but what size injectors are you using. If you are using MsNs i want to see if i will need to run an external driver box to run 1000cc inj. I know that have one built in, but i dont know if it is strong enough to run 1000cc's. also how much are you going to weigh in at when all said and done do you think? sfwd you need to be 2400 or above. Which 40r and which size A/R are you using on the exhaust side for the divided housing?

VelocitàPaola · 07-09-2007, 11:18 AM

MSnS-E can drive 1000cc/min's just fine. It can pretty much drive anything you can throw at them... The "built in" part you're probably thinking of is the flyback circuit, and that's just to minimize inductive kickback from the injectors' coils. As for the power actually needed to open an injector... it doesn't necessarily increase with the size of the injector.

And he's not using MSnS-E as far as I know.

eclipsers-t · 07-09-2007, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSM-ZERO

Another pic of the shield

I am sorry I must have missed the post to explain the purpose of the shield. So what purpose does it serve?

Locke · 07-09-2007, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eclipsers-t

I am sorry I must have missed the post to explain the purpose of the shield. So what purpose does it serve?

It is to prevent shrapnel from destroying nearby components when his clutch/flywheel or differential explodes.

DSM-ZERO · 07-09-2007, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knightrider4

you might have answered this already somewhere in the post, but what size injectors are you using. If you are using MsNs i want to see if i will need to run an external driver box to run 1000cc inj. I know that have one built in, but i dont know if it is strong enough to run 1000cc's. also how much are you going to weigh in at when all said and done do you think? sfwd you need to be 2400 or above. Which 40r and which size A/R are you using on the exhaust side for the divided housing?

Im running a Tech 3r standalone. w/ 1600cc injs... GT4067R .85 a/r

Quote:

Originally Posted by eclipsers-t

I am sorry I must have missed the post to explain the purpose of the shield. So what purpose does it serve?

it is a Scatter shield so when my clutch explodes at high rpm it dosent cut my foot off. The shield protects me from that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzeclips

I am still confused about the whole co2 thing. I'm hesitant to even take a stab at it actually. From what it sounds like, the wastegate will be independant to the manifold charge because that manifold charge can be replaced by the co2. Rather then waiting for the gate to open or close, he can control it by charging it with co2. So the wastegate stays closed under high boost, and only opens on command. Same thing with low boost except he can add the charge for an earlier boost response.

Either that or he's creating some sort of vaccuum to pull the pressure into the wastegate quicker, so it thinks theres more pressure then there is?

I don't know.

Is this co2 going to be controlled manually or set via module/program supported in the boost controller/logger?

Yes you are exactly right. and It is going to be programed