Avenger 420a / GS-T Engine Swap !?!

[AvengerHybrid]

I am looking to some info...

I have a 96' Dodge Avenger ES... about 75% the same car as an Eclipse GS
(almost bought an Eclipse till I was sitting at a light one day, as saw 6 of them go by)

So I got something a little out of the norm... In doing so, I have caused myself 10x's the work... but I still like the fact it's differant. Plus, it's a bigger car, and I'm 6'-3" tall.

Here's my question...

Is there anyone that knows if a GS-T engine can be swapped into an Avenger?

Or an easier question... can a GS-T be swapped into a GS ?
Both the GS and Avenger have the 420a engine.
But were the Eclipse/Avenger frames, designed to bolt up to both 420a and the GS-T engines ???

Thanks for any possible help !!!!

 

[Blk95gs]

i remember asking someone if i could swap a 4g63 into my GS...they said it is a lot of work, and very costly. honestly, im not too sure, but if you could do that it would be mad nice.

 

[98TsiAWD]

Its been done before. Check out http://bbs.asog.net/bbs2/index.php Its the Avenger/Sebrings owners group, There is plenty of info on what you can do to your car there.

 

[Chris_FL]

Don't swap it, just get a turbo kit.
http://www.turbosystem.com/auto/avenger/avenger.htm

 

[mitsucar4]

To do this swap you need the motor, ECU, all the wiring harnesses, and tranny. It's going to run you a pretty penny. It would be easier to either get a turbo kit for your 420a or buy a turbo eclipse.

 

[98TsiAWD]

Since you have an ES, is it a v6? ?If so there is a twin turbo kit being made for it with an ETA of October. Kinda wish I didnt sell my venge now

 

[AvengerHybrid]

No... it is a 4-cyl 5speed manual.

The idea is to build a sleeper.
Everyone knows that Avengers had crappy engines.
The plan was to start with a newer 4G36 since my 420a has
120,000 miles right now... Still runs great, but I'm sure it won't last forever.

I plan on starting with the 4G36 on a stand, and working on it for a while.
I have plenty of time, and a huge shop.
Kinda my new hobby project.

I was really trying to find out if both engines can mount into the car????

 

[DeeBo]

Ok i know a guy with that turbo get on his gs or rs eclipse my freinds stock gst smoked him now thing what the gst could of done with that 3 grand the ather car spent on that turbo kit muahahhahahah


but any was my sister has a 97 avenger pertty quick. but hell ya make a slepper just go to a junk yard and find a jack turbo dsm if not i have a trany i can sell u and block off my 91 laser turbo. if u do the swap muahahhahahaha o and come to think of it i know an avnger with that turbo kit to. kinda fast but a stock dsm can kill it just do the swap and if u look in the right places and do the work your self u shoud be able to keep cost down im just geusstamating but i would say u can do it all for under 2 grand maybe less but any ways if u dodo it <- send me some pics so i can show my sis and maybe she well want it done to hers

 

[DeeBo]

o ya if u r in Fort Myers area come out the the races sat night and u can see them both for your self ill be in a red 93 gsx ill be wearing a dsmtuners sweater if its cold

 

[siueclipse]

Originally posted by DeeBo
Ok i know a guy with that turbo get on his gs or rs eclipse my freinds stock gst smoked him now thing what the gst could of done with that 3 grand the ather car spent on that turbo kit muahahhahahah

sounds like your friend either has a shitty turbo kit, didn't install it right, or just simply doesn't know how to drive. i eat gst's for breakfast.

 

[Kirby]

"Ok i know a guy with that turbo get on his gs or rs eclipse my freinds stock gst smoked him now thing what the gst could of done with that 3 grand the ather car spent on that turbo kit muahahhahahah "
It must have been the stage 1 kit, because I spank 4g63's all the time. It's clear that you have no idea what you are talking about deebo, so go jack someones chain or something. To do that swap he needs the engine, all wires for the engine and ecu, guage cluster (I don't know what the avenger cluster looks like but it prolly is not the same.), Fabricate mounts for the engine and tranny, radiator, All accessory mounts and equipment....etc,etc,etc. There is no way it's going to be around $2000, that's not even close. Then take into account it's prolly going to cost you well into the 4 or 5 grand range to pull off that swap, and you will have the performance of a stock GST. If you rebuild your engine and turbo it, you can do that for anywhere from 3-5 grand, Then for less money you have a car that will romp any stock gst. It will take a pretty moded 4g63 to keep up with you at that point. Basicly, don't waste your money going for stock GST performance, upgrade that 420a and have a true sleeper that will kick some tail.

 

[DeeBo]

omfg (*&% u i dunno where your from but u need to stop being an ass and ye si beat he could do it all under 2 and guages r the same

god i hope u r going to daytona fro spring break hope to see u there kid

 

[AvengerHybrid]

Well thanks to both of you for your opinions !!!

I am somewhat friends with a few of the mechanics here at the local Mitsubishi shop... and they tend to agree with the "add a turbo" idea. They said it would be a fraction of the headaches, and if done well, it would kick a GS-T's ass

They also said about 3-5k to do it right. I was thinking about getting a 1st, or 2nd stage turbo kit... I an not really going for the as much power as possible. I doubt I will even ever race the thing, I just want it to be able to get out of it's own way at times

I did this picture in Photoshop myself...
It was taken from an HPI 1/10th scale RC car, then I cleaned it up and added everythig I want it to look like. I'm also thinking about doing some kind of http://www.giger.com paintjob as well... I dono... I am also doing ALL body work, and painthing myself too.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[kamakazy59]

Dude that looks like my dads stratus! the stratus looks som good hooked up!

 

[98Turbbo420A]

Originally posted by DeeBo
omfg (*&% u i dunno where your from but u need to stop being an ass and ye si beat he could do it all under 2 and guages r the same

god i hope u r going to daytona fro spring break hope to see u there kid

Well that settles that argument, Mr. Deebo has absoltuly no idea what he is talking about, and personally someone buy him a dictionary!

Now back on topic, modding a 420A is cheaper and if you sit down and do some serious research it's accually a little better. Tell me how many modded 4G63's (medium and highly modded ones) do you see breaking down all the time. You've got to remember that while the stock 4G63 has been known to take abuse, and majority of them break failry easily. Look at your 420A, it needs an engine rebuild for sure, new Weisco pistons, Eagle or Crower rods, rings, a new oil pump, new gaskets, and a good bore and hone! You're motor will purr! Sure you need fuel, timing, ingnition etc., but trust me man, it's more worth it to build the motor you have. Just my opinion, hope it helps!

 

[DeeBo]

Ok then have u seen thatt black gs that has the same turbo kit your talking about got beat at the races bye my friends all stock gt s ??????????? and my friend with anther gt s with 3 ppl in car beat him?????

 

[rbenard]

I say do exactly as you said you would do with the 4g63 but with the 420a. For the price of the swap (which I have no idea how much it would cost but I would bet alot) you could build a bad setup. But another option is if you have money and want a new car, sell it and get a GSX.

 

[DeeBo]

DO your thing im just sawing it would be badass to see and avenger with the swap i think u guys should stop hateing abd push him to get the swap. and not be just anther bolt uper <-

 

[AvengerHybrid]

Originally posted by DeeBo
DO your thing im just sawing it would be badass to see and avenger with the swap i think u guys should stop hateing abd push him to get the swap. and not be just anther bolt uper <-

I tend to agree with you... but $$$ is an issue too ;(

 

[DeeBo]

yes money is a BIG issue

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by DeeBo
omfg (*&% u i dunno where your from but u need to stop being an ass and ye si beat he could do it all under 2 and guages r the same

god i hope u r going to daytona fro spring break hope to see u there kid

Originally posted by DeeBo
Ok then have u seen thatt black gs that has the same turbo kit your talking about got beat at the races bye my friends all stock gt s ??????????? and my friend with anther gt s with 3 ppl in car beat him?????

I'm going to ask you again, What stage turbo kit was it? Automatic or stick? Stage 1 kits wil have trouble beating a GST. Stage 2 kits will not, depending on boost level and driver capability. 2 cars that put out the same horsepower, are tuned the same and weigh the same, with different drivers will have different results. That guy may not know how to drive the car. You can't make a blanket statement about all kits based on 2 races. The only reason I was harsh is because you attacked my motor, and spoke about things you don't know anything about. If you honestly believe you can swap a 4g63 into a 420a car for $2,000, your wrong. Unless you are a master fabricator, that gets all the parts for free and free supplies to fab with there is no way your doing that swap for under $2,000. I'm not going to Daytona for spring break, but where are you from? I'm assuming that you want to race me right, well if you are near me we can meet at the track when ever you are ready. I agree it would be a neat swap and would be unique, but all it would be is unique, and stupid. Even if it was only 2 grand, you could get a used stage 2 for that price and still be faster than the stock motor you are trying to swap in. The GST-s have what 210 crank HP stock. I've got around 250-260 crank HP in a lighter car. Now tell me if they are both driven correctly who is going to win. Also I think it's funny you call me "kid" when it's clear that you are the one who is un schooled in this area. Why would you call me a kid when I have more knowledge about this topic than you do.

 

[AvengerHybrid]

So you are saying a 420a with a 2nd stage turbo WILL beat a stock GST ?? ( if driven equaly)

As far as unique... that (car) is the unique part... there arn't many around, and I have only seen 1 Avenger in town that looked like anyone spent any time or $$$ on it...

 

[Kirby]

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. This is from Hahn's website 1/4 mile performance (on street tires, not slicks)
Stage 1: 14.5 seconds @ 95 MPH (-1.5 seconds vs. GS-T!)
Stage 2: 13.7 seconds @103 MPH (-2.3 seconds vs. GS-T!)
These are Hahn's times.
Here are their HP ratings:
Power Output @ crankshaft
Stage 1: 200 to 225 HP
stage 2: 250 to 275 HP
And keep in mind we (2gnt's) are a few hundred LBS lighter as well.
Here is a link to their site... http://www.hahnracecraft.com/auto/eclipse/eclipse.htm

 

[EclipseOwner95]

Actually Kirby, i dont know much about all this ,but i have a 95 rs, and i have a 420a in it, and its approching 130,000 dollars, and ive been shopping around, i was in the same delama, buy a new 420a and turbo it, or buy a 4g63 and a WAY cheaper after mareket turbo ( thinkign a 20g or a 16g ) and get way more out of it, ive seen 420a crates with no tranny go for 1899. i also found a 4g63 crate for 1800, and i can get a tranny for 500, so 1900 for 140hp or 2300 for 210hp , im doing the math, and the crate comes with an ECU and wiring harness, so im probably going to do it that way, unless you find some way to change my mind , and im planning to do the swap myself os i dont have to pay ayone to do it, so IF you were in my position what would you do ??

 

[EclipseOwner95]

oh and i just read your things from hahn , there full of bullshit bro, ok , my friend has a totaly ALL SHOW no go GS , got all the fast and furious #### on it, its an automatic, GS all it has is a AEM CAI , Shift kit, and greddy cat back exhaust and he runs 14.8's no nos or ne thing, why does it seem to point out that a gs-t's 1/4 time is 16 seconds cuz i know its not, my bone stock RS runs low 17's, i gave up listening to hahn a long time ago bro