The 1g all motor alternative! - Page 5

Quasimondo · 11-01-2006, 02:50 PM

Found some useful stuff that you guys might appreciate:

http://www.pittspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13236
Results of a 1G cylinder head being tested on a flow bench, and after some light porting was done.

Also, I did some searching and found that Arias makes custom pistons, so you can get a set of high compression pistons, provided you supply them with the proper information about your engine.

http://www.ariaspistons.com/customformdrop.htm

I'll supply you guys with more links as I find them.

anubis · 11-14-2006, 01:41 PM

since you brought up custom pistons, slowboy is offering custom pistons too. they've got ties with a lot of different piston manufacturers so they'll probably be able to get you a really good deal.

http://www.slowboyracing.com/shop.php?sid=&cat=4703

you're going to NEED custom pistons (high compression ratio) if you want to make serious naturally aspirated horsepower.

noodlez60 · 01-21-2007, 06:01 AM

http://www.theoldone.com/articles/The_Soft_Head_1999/

this article explains the advanced characteristics of a small "close the spherical as possible" combustion chamber. it also relates to adapting this tek to other applications such as our vehicles. in the article there is a part about changing the valve geometry, but i think that is a little too much, but may be nessecary for certain apps. i like this atricle (:

personally, if i were to use this information (at my current knowledge of dynamics) i would use the custom cam/piston combo for our engine, whether it be 4g63,64,61,67,cs,g64b and other such block castings. but remember i am here to learn aswell any math that may help me in my goal may help others awsell to understand what is best for them

honestly i have very little mathematical info on designing something like this setup. i have NO CAM knowledge, just lift and thats it... just know bigger is better (for the mostpart). as to a sherical combustion chamber, situated mainly around the exhaust, i would assume a half/half dome dish piston

now... as it pertains to my 2.4L 4gcs/63 head hybrid
i am taking into a lot of consideration in researching the best path to go about a high horsepower engine build. since i slipped my timing last summer, i now have a lot of spare parts and the urge to drive my eclipse again. now i dont want to take the time to list all the parts i have but i do have enough parts, smarts, and people to get the job done. here are the highlight parts:

eagle rods (stock length)
crower single valvesprings w/ tit. retainers
ported "trash" 1g head (slipped timing, may be useful for oversized valves? just ask for more info)
stock 2g head
adjustable camsprockets
stock 10:1 comp 4gcs pistons (add and remove metal for cnc dimensions or test models)

die grinder, autocad, calipers, jbweld, and other such is at my direct disposal and i have many friends in auto, cnc, classic machining, and racing careers that are willing to help any way they can (within reason).

as far as i know this is the most logical way to make this work. Personally i am willing to have it done. i also need an equation to find displacements with curve feeds and such. i can determine radiuses of curves after a first draft, then go back and forth while designing off of a base set of numbers

as for the piston design. I KNOW I AM IN OVER MY HEAD and it may seem im jumping in the deep end, but i know i want to learn and i learn by design... if you dont want to post in the thread, then PM me.

ATOMIK_82 · 01-24-2007, 08:39 AM

Before you "jump off the deep end," as you so called it, consider your intensions for the vehicle and come up with a plan. As most people are aware, the chosen modification path may damatically impact its drivability and fuel economy(OCTANE!!!) and such. If money is tight, come up with an agenda with stages of modification. This a precision machine and all parts must be in harmony for optimum performance and pleasure.

Whats are you expectation for the vehicle? Street?... Strip?... Track?... Auto-X?... Drift?(heaven help you)... Canyon carver?... Trailer Queen?...

Maybe I can help.

noodlez60 · 01-26-2007, 01:32 AM

My goal is a spare longblock that I can throw in anything I want. I would prefer something like a dodge colt... or maybe my DSM. I guess my goal is to make a trailor "engine" and EMS.

with die grinding, my goal is a base "prototype" piston using the soft head article as referance and a guide. I want to make a half dome, half dish 10.5-11:1 CR piston that will work with a matching custom cam.

my true goal is to learn as much as possible. I would like to learn the benefits of precharging the intake valves to "get the air moving", from "soft head" article. i would assume an equation to match valve movement and piston movement would help in design.

nobody takes all motor DSM's seriously

noodlez60 · 01-26-2007, 01:46 AM

oh... I will probably use this engine for drag racing. I do not know how this will affect the powerband. I do not know if it will be a good engine for any of those apps. As far as i know it might only be good as a continuois rpm based engine, for a generator or pump.

if you want to talk about my goals and such email me or PM me. i dont wanna hijack threads, just learn. hope that site helps and ill keep you guys updated if needed

91PittNT · 03-26-2007, 02:23 PM

id liek to get this back up there and get some opinions on my current setup and where i should gead to next.

Currently i have a 1gb Eclipse, it was a 7bolt NT/Auto,
First step was to put a rebuilt 91 6bolt motor in it
Current Mods:
-Turbo intake cam
-5spd turbo injectors - 450cc's, with the resister pack
-Stock turbo fuel pump (190? lph)
-Cold air intake, hacked mas, K&N filter. cut the sheetmetal up behind the headlight to flow into the intake better
-Cheap OBX header that is port matched to the head
-Pacesetter cat-back, 2.5" mandrel bent, removed the stock pacesetter muffler, cheap flow-throw
-Cheap adjustable FPR
-1990 Turbo 5spd trans, ACT2100, Fidanza aluminum flywheel, steel braided clutch line, all shit kits, extended slave rod

Im still having issues with it running rich, it seems like, although i havnt installed a air fuel meter or fuel pressure gauge.

I was thinking about maybe installing a small spray kit and running nitrous at the track just for that extra oomph. this car doesnt see much drag racing, mostly autox, and running the twisties

What else would anyone recomend? anyone know what else i should do to try and tune it a bit?

Nick
aim - slowtxdsm

dnhieu · 03-26-2007, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 91PittNT

id liek to get this back up there and get some opinions on my current setup and where i should gead to next.

Currently i have a 1gb Eclipse, it was a 7bolt NT/Auto,
First step was to put a rebuilt 91 6bolt motor in it
Current Mods:
-Turbo intake cam
-5spd turbo injectors - 450cc's, with the resister pack
-Stock turbo fuel pump (190? lph)
-Cold air intake, hacked mas, K&N filter. cut the sheetmetal up behind the headlight to flow into the intake better
-Cheap OBX header that is port matched to the head
-Pacesetter cat-back, 2.5" mandrel bent, removed the stock pacesetter muffler, cheap flow-throw
-Cheap adjustable FPR
-1990 Turbo 5spd trans, ACT2100, Fidanza aluminum flywheel, steel braided clutch line, all shit kits, extended slave rod

Im still having issues with it running rich, it seems like, although i havnt installed a air fuel meter or fuel pressure gauge.

I was thinking about maybe installing a small spray kit and running nitrous at the track just for that extra oomph. this car doesnt see much drag racing, mostly autox, and running the twisties

What else would anyone recomend? anyone know what else i should do to try and tune it a bit?

Nick
aim - slowtxdsm

i would either install the auto 390cc injectors OR maybe turn the fuel pressure down...

91PittNT · 03-26-2007, 03:00 PM

ive tried turning it down but it still seems rich, and if i do decide to spray it dont i wan some extra fuel? wont the spray lean the motor out?

dnhieu · 03-26-2007, 03:34 PM

yeah if your running a dry kit. it still will probably still be rich with a wet kit tho...

91PittNT · 03-26-2007, 08:09 PM

so would there be anyway to have the fuel adjust and richen up during the spray? like adjust itself?

dnhieu · 03-26-2007, 10:03 PM

nope you would have to run 2 tunes...

this is why a wet kit is better. it injects fuel + nitrious so your tune should be pretty close.

edit: i shouldnt say better. i mean "safer"

TimG · 03-29-2007, 08:11 AM

Are you trying to control your 450cc/min injectors with a N/T ECU?

91PittNT · 03-29-2007, 04:19 PM

yeh, im still running a 1991 NT ECU. if i were to swap to a turbo ecu would it be a large difference? because i have one in a parts car.

TimG · 03-30-2007, 08:17 AM

It would help for sure but the correct thing to do is drop the n/t 240cc/min injectors back in. Without forced induction, you won't ever need anything more then them. So bypass your injector resistor pack and put them back in.

SBR Chris · 03-30-2007, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anubis

since you brought up custom pistons, slowboy is offering custom pistons too. they've got ties with a lot of different piston manufacturers so they'll probably be able to get you a really good deal.

http://www.slowboyracing.com/shop.php?sid=&cat=4703

you're going to NEED custom pistons (high compression ratio) if you want to make serious naturally aspirated horsepower.

I just happened to notice this thread.

For you N/A guys, that are looking to make a lot of power, without going to turbo, we have had these made:

This is a custom 13.8:1 Compression Ratio, 6 bolt piston. It would require a lot of race gas, all of the time, but it's another alternative.

Chris Boone
Slowboy Racing Inc.
cab@slowboyracing.com

ATOMIK_82 · 05-29-2007, 07:09 PM

If you could trim those pistons down to a 11.8:1, I'd buy a set. A piston like this one might offer a more street/super-street comprimise. Perhaps adding a 0.035"ish thicker headgasket (to the 11.8's) might offer a more streetable 11:1. As well, this piston will still have the option to mill the head(with a standard, or slightly thiner head gasket) to yeild a high-octane friendly 12.5" for big, LUMPY cams... Still on the very edge of streetablity.

JOEY A · 05-30-2007, 07:36 PM

Have fun running FI cams, and FI intake manifold on a non turbo car...

How about this go over to Sr20forum.com and look at what they are doing in the NA department

Some of your exberts are way off

JOEY A · 05-31-2007, 07:49 AM

2.3 or 2.4 is going to be the way to go, TQ is what a NA car really needs!

More cubes the better.......

There is alot of miss info in here, has anyone ever built a all motor car themselfs?

Everything looks fancy on paper, but talk to people in the all motor drag world and see what they have to say