I am interested in seeing how some turbo FI's will work with the non-turbo, since I'm building a stroker. If someone has information I would love to get it. Also, someone said a GST manual trans will bolt up to the non-turbo block. Seem like it would work. Is there a specific code GST trans that is the strongest? I would love getting rid of my F5M22 for something stronger.
Advertisement
To browse the forums without the advertisements above, Login/Register
Well I just found out that there is only a F5M33, stupid me. Anyway, has someone already tried putting a F5M33(1G,2G GST Manual Trans) in a 1G 2.0 non-turbo. From my F5M22 rebuild, the only differences I saw in the F5M22 in comparison to the F5M33 was bearings. The F5M33 has ball bearings only, and the F5M22 uses 2 ball bearings(1 sealed, both are on the input shaft), and on the interm. and output shafts the F5M22 uses tappered roller bearings. Even tappered roller bearings on the diff. I'll look at my .pdf manuals again and compare tonight.
trans works, im putting a gst tranny in my gs. i have a fidanza aluminum flywheel, act2600 and a 6 puck dosc goin in. the trans has same bolt pattern on the bell housing but it has greater clearence in the bell itself for the bigger clutch. it bells otu more then the n/t does. this is why you need to chnge flywheels, so the starter grabs the flywheel correctly.
as for turbo injectors, you need the injector resistor packl off any turbo car andf have to splice the wires into the injector harness on the n/t car. this will allow the use of auto turbo 390cc injectors or turbo manual 450cc blue top injectors. yea it works mavisky did this a logn time ago and there are a few write ups abotu it floating around onhere.
use search button, that subject has been talked about, same with the trans question
So the plate in between the trans and block needs on from a turbo, so the holes for the starter match up. Kewl. I'll have to see about finding a turbo in the junkyard to rob the FI stuff.
the plate i beleive is the same as they have the same botl pattern for the bell housing, so the plate will not have to be touched. however the flywheel,clutch,and trans will need to be changed.
now that i think abotu it the starter should bolt in the same spot since the housing bolt pattern is the same, just the bell in the housing itself adds for a biogger clutch to fit underneath the housing.
ill post some pics within a few weeks. im havign my tranny put in soon so when it gets put in ill let you know
I just bought a 93 eagle talon es for 1800 with only 108000 miles and am planning on doing a header back exhaust custom cold air intake ###### one of the ones suggested on the vfaq, an underdrive pulley, and an intake cam off a turbo, hopefully ill be able to get 38 more hp at the crank, for 400-500 dollars. I'm debating on buying a race cat or just going straight pipe. Would anyone know of a good next semicheap step from there ? Also what size would be good for an exhaust to match up with this 2.5 or 3 inch?
run a punishment header,2.5 inch gst downpipe, and a 2.5 gst exhaust. that shoudl get you some good gains and flow. after that id run a test piep definately. i had one and my car had soem major torque with my setup.
other then that you can do sparl plug wires,cam gears,pulleys, but after that your either doin head work or internals from there.
i have a set of turbo cams and a punishment header for sale dirt cheap. lemme know
Sorry to bring up the injectors again, but... would it be necessary to install larger fuel injectors if I'm am building a non-turbo stroker. Right now I would be using the non-turbo injectors. The stroker pistons take the compression from the 9 to 1 stock to 8.8 to 1(Wiseco). So I'm just a little stumped on if running the normal injectors.
youll lose power with a lower compression. you have to up it to at least 10:0:1 or more to start making ore power. the stock compression will only take you so far then you have to raise it to make more.
fuel injectors for a stroker with cams and a built head will need 390cc injectors and a stock gst fuel pump at most. you wont need that much fuel. not as much as a upgraded turbo car would.
390cc injectors will supply a lot of mods on a n/a car. youd need full exhaust,header,intake,ignition,cams,head work,10:0:1 compression at least. a stroker setup will net good tq in n/a form
talked to another person today who had a 1g n/a who ran a 264 hks intake cam and stock exhaust who was also running 390cc injectors. said it made a huge difference and was good for a butt dyno;
talked to another person today who had a 1g n/a who ran a 264 hks intake cam and stock exhaust who was also running 390cc injectors. said it made a huge difference and was good for a butt dyno;
with those injectors a safc would help. yes he had oen but i didnt get the specs on how he tuned em in. when runnign those injectors you have a lot more fuel then stock, the n/t fuel pressure regulator is way higher pressure then the stock turbo one. i beleive the stock turbo regulator is set at 34psi and the n.t is soemwhere abotu 40. im gonan post a link as soon as i get the site adress again to the specs. im waiting on a response. i got rid of the link which i shouldnt have done but ill post em up asap
when you run the larger injectors on a n/t youll need all the basic botl ons to get full advantage of the increase in fuel. pulleys,intake, full exhaust, ignition basics are a must. then drop the cams in with some adj cam gears an you will have some torque. my old car had a ported pacesetter header, pacesetter cat back, test pipe, taylor wires, injen intake, k&n filter and i had turbo guys tell me i had butt loads of torque.
i didnt get as far as cams and my tranny spit out. best thing imho if your serious abotu all motor would be to swap in a turbo tranny from a gst. im doin a write up on it as soon as i get my damn car down here. i have all parts for it i just need to do it. ill post a link when i do it. the syncors are stronger as well as the gear sets. the n/t tranny is very weak and doesnt take much to kill it. specially if you have a lead foot
i would never bild anythign ford. granted the 351m 400 is a good motor(both of em) id rather go with a 4 botl 350 or a 454. if i was to go ford id go with 2 different motors. a cleavlend, or a 460. both rock
ok i talked to defiant and he was awesome anough to just give me the link to the site. i couldnt remember where to find it. had a brain fart. here are the spec differences between the turbo fuel pressure and the n/t fuel pressure.
now to get the turbo 450cc fuel injectors to work properly you will have to basically make a turbo fuel setup. if you ruin the injectors with the n/t regulator they will nto work properly. so you can grab a turbo rail from a parts car easily. then grab the injectors and run a stock tsi fuel pump and your whole fuel setup will be good enough to run any fuel your motor will ever need. i do nto se a n/t motor runnign higher then 450cc injectors.
you can also rewire the fuel pump just like the turbo guys do and benifit the same way. youll also be able to run 390cc injectors with the same fuel setup. im in the process of tweakig a few parts for my n/t motor when i get my car and im gonna see abotu fuel setups in the not do distant future. ill build my n/a motor with bolt ons and cams and such and see what the stock 9:0:1 compression can do. then ill drop my big rod motor in since itll be a while before i finish it.
Heres a few ideas for you guys to play with. build a 2.4 using a 4gcs and a 4g63 head. I belive this creates a 11:1 compression ratio. then use the cyclone intake with the butterflys working for better lowend torque. switch to a turbo computer and such, it really isn't hard you only have to add 3 wires, and you get the benefit of a knock sensor and being able to burn eprom chips. Keep your n/t trans low gears are your freind with a low torque motor. You guys will never make enought power to tear up a n/t trans. thats what i run in my turbo car and there simply isn't enought traction to break it, and it is just as strong as a turbo. but avoid spinning one tire cause that will cause it to spit a spider gear out into the belhousing. (this is why i have a n/t tranny now)
well, i cracked my tranny,but the problem isnt the tranny. the clutch size is. its smaller then the gst clutch, im doin the swap now. granted its wy more clutch then needed, but, more is better then not enough in my book.
ill look into head cc's for the 4gcs and trhe 4g63 then do the math for thecompression. now i got something to do tonight.
found out that the 4g64 block with stock pistons and a 4g63 head on it does net a 11:0:1 compression 2.4L dohc motor. pretty kcik ass
also its tax return time. abotu now i am tryign to get my car here so i can get it goin. by the time my incoe tax comes in ill have a few more parts to install on here, my header will be good and cleaned up, ill have the exhaust hopefulyl by then as well. ill have intake, crank pulley, and spark plugs and wires.
once i get my tax return in im callign polk performance. they have a set of custom cams they spec'd out for a n/a dsm. i heard this from someone on here that dealt with them, not the n/a cams but knows they have em. so ill be purchasing a set of those bad boys and getitng my head ready for them as well. im going to run stock diameter stainless valves instead of the 1mm over. ill try this head otu and dyno her a bit get it tuned then upgrade and see the differences,pro and cons.
the stock head flows great and i think the stock valves will be plenty for what im tryign to do. that and the intake stuff i have planned will make it even better.
i will post once i get everythign roling and ill post specs on the cams.
300 is abouts top i see without power adders. but with race gas and higher compressions id would have to be done. anythign is possible depending on what you do and hwo much money you have
Another good way to bump the compression up is the addition of the 4g67 head. If you don't want to replace the entire bottom end, the CC's on the 4g67 head are smaller (42 vs 47 for the 4g63) That gives you the same runner size as the 4g63 with more compression. The 4g61 head runs the smaller CC but with smaller ports as well. MY CC on my milled 4g67 head ran 41.1 CC
Hey guys, quick question. Which turbo cams should I get to gain max power from my n/t while still maintaining everyday drivability (smooth idle mostly)? Stock 4G63Turbo cams, or HKS 264's, or could I even get away with HKS 272's? Please consider that I would have adjustable cam gears, SAFC2, and upgraded fuel injectors and fuel pump plus the required I-H-E upgrades.
Well if you aren't in too big of a hurry, I am currently in the process of putting in the Crower 64415 intake cam while leaving the exhaust cam stock. I am hoping that with this combination the vacuum will still be great enough at idle that it won't be too rough while still giving me the gains at the higher rpm's that I am looking for. I should have everything together within a couple of weeks and then I am sure it will take me a few more to tune it in properly. I will post my results to let everyone know if there was an improvement or not. The specs on the cam are 264 duration and .438 lift...compared to 219 duration and .366 lift on the stock 1g turbo intake cam. This should provide some good gains if everything is dialed in right.
i have the hks 264 intake cam stock exhaust and i notice a pretty good gain this is just from the butt dyno tho havent taken her in to get the cams adjusted yet tho i will this summer when i have some more money and a few more mods. it moved the power band up about 500 rpm from 3500- about 4000
I did do a search, believe it or not :eek: and this seems like the best thread for me to ask this question. I was reading through some of the older posts. So, this is whats been eating me. I have a 1g head thats been ported/polished. I have the hks 264 intake cam as well, would my vacuum be lower with this combination of mods? My vacuum is only about 5in/hg at 900rpms. I have done a boost/vacuum leak test from the uicp to the manifold and to no luck finding anything that would attribute such low vacuum figures I have a Cyclone intake manifold with replaced gaskets also. My injector o-rings are brand new and are not leaking. My compression was 190psi in the summer, so thats not an issue. I dont have my cams degreed either, they line up at 8*btdc thats the best i could get them. Im open to any suggestions, as I want all my previous issues resolved when I get my new shortblock...
this is a long post, but i'm looking for some accurate, solid information and advice.
i've been on the forums for quite some time during the past few days trying to soak up as much information as possible about this topic. i have decided that i want to do something like this with my non-turbo laser. i haven't found anything about this except on this forum. i tried posting in a forum talking about stroking with a turbo and didn't get much help. so i'm reposting here because i think it would be more appreciated by my non-turbocharged peers.
for now, i am SERIOUSLY considering doing this. i believe i have most of the supporting mods or will have them soon and my engine is out of the car, in pieces, and ready to be built.
let me begin with my parts list.
what i have:
k&n filter, hacked maf, solid intake pipe
ngk irridium plugs, 10mm wires
full 2.5" exhaust system with header and cat eliminated
underdriven pulleys and aluminum crank pulley
adjustable cam gears
turbo cams
what's on the way:
stage 1 port/polish head
balance shaft eliminator kit
ported intake
want to port the header to match the new port job
what i will get:
stock turbo injectors (i believe i need a resistor pack from the turbo too)
stock turbo fuel pump
fuel pressure regulator
high flow fuel rail
safc2 and pocketlogger stuff
what i need to stroke:
6bolt crank
some block work
pistons
? ? ? ? ?
i don't want to do a bottom end swap. i'm familiar with the 4g63 engine and have all ready spent a lot of money on parts for it. now for the questions:
what else would i need for the stroker kit?
what other supporting modifications would i need to do to make this work if any besides those listed?
which crank should i get?
what is a recommended compression ratio?
what pistons should i get (with CR in mind)?
will my ecu suffice?
keep in mind, i do not have any plans to turbo charge this car and do not want to, and cost is a factor in this project. i welcome and appreciate any answers, suggestions, and advice. if you have constructive criticism or civilized discouragement, i will welcome that too.
well, i can't say that i'm surprised that i didn't find much help here either. since the above post of mine, i have changed my mind. i did get a g4cs bottom end and am in the process of going to town on this thing. it's going to be a naturally aspirated beast by the time it's all said and done. i have most of my questions answered thanks to tireless research and a kind sir named sean (aka 2.4 turbo hyped). i should have everything i need to put this project together by the end of may. i hope to have my car back on the road by july.
for right now my only question is this: HAS ANYONE IN THE WORLD EVER DONE A NON-TURBO G4CS HYBRID MOTOR? ANYONE? i can't be the first person to ever actually do this, am i? i mean, i try to get some advice and pointers about specifics; but no one knows the answers. oh sure, they've got the answers, for a turbo application; but mention "non-turbo" and no one knows the answers anymore... what the hell.
i'm documenting and photographing everything i've been doing so far. when i'm all done, i am going to write a how-to/vfaq/tech article. so if anyone else wants to do this i'll be able to help. for now, everything is trial and error and trying to make things work. wish me luck. or continue to ignore me. i don't care. i'm doing this with or without help and blessing.
I have a Cyclone intake manifold with replaced gaskets also. My injector o-rings are brand new and are not leaking. My compression was 190psi in the summer, so thats not an issue. I dont have my cams degreed either, they line up at 8*btdc 
thats the best i could get them. Im open to any suggestions, as I want all my previous issues resolved when I get my new shortblock... 
thinking about stroking it
