which is EASIER to tune, AFC, AEM, DSM Link?

[quickersol]

which setup would be easier for a beginer to tune? i've been looking at the AFC because of price, it also seems easy enough to operate but with bigger injectors seems like i could run into some problems. then i checked out the DSM Link, seemed like the easiest to use and operate out of the three and the price isn't too bad, plus it has data logging capabilities. i think with the DSM Link i can "dial" in my injector size and get the car running easier, i also like the laptop format for viewing and saving information. i already have a laptop so all i would need to lay down is $600 for the link. then theres the AEM setup, nice but really expensive and it seems kind of complicated to use for a beginer. what do you guys think? i plan to work my way up to eventually 400-450whp.

also, i plan to have the car dyno tuned once everything is compleated. i just want to be able to have the car running properly as i am adding mods. elite said it would cost about $150 to tune the car with dsm link and another $150 to convert to 2wd for tuning, does this sound like a pretty decent deal?

 

[niterydr]

ahh another minnesota member...elite is a good place to start out asking questions, their are some knowledgeable people working at that place. I would personally recommend an afc for a beginner. Start out small with your 2g, upic, exhaust, intake. Also, the afc has alot more 'user' support versus the other systems (but they are rapidly catching up through message boards/web pages), but almost everyone has had an afc at one point or another. Check out places like roadraceengineering.com, vfaq.com, miacracing.com (local mn import club, lots of local guys that can help with problems).
You want to get to 400whp eventually? how long do you want to take? how strong do you want the car? how much do you want to drive it in the process..start with the basics, then go to fuel with the afc imo, upgrade turbos in different sizes, just don't go from the t25 to a t3/t4 or huge hybrid and expect miracles overnight.
Good luck.
nm..i just checked your mods list, apperantly you already have the basics covered, I don't own a 2g, but the t28 seems to be a very popular choice, alot of the local guys are running 20g sized turbos however..

 

[hostile]

DSM link is the easier than the afc and the AEM is not for ease of use.

 

[RocketBoy]

The AFC is the easiest to use by far. Splice in five wires, punch 1/4 buttons. To tune, plug in a data logger and add/subtract fuel until you get good timing. That's about as simple as it gets, not to mention with a computer in the car it isn't exactly easy to make on the fly changes if you're tuning it by yourself.

 

[quickersol]

the dsm link seems like it would be the easiest to install, just plug in the ecu and cable to the computer. i like the dsm link because it seems extreamly easy to run larger injectors and also has data logging built in as one setup. the dsm link also alows you to adjust timing, air/fuel, rev limiter, speed limiter, plus alot of other sweet functions. the afc seems like it would be hard to get the car even running... any other opinions?


btw thanks for the opinions so far guys!

 

[hostile]

Yeah plus without logging your just kinda #@%#@%#@%#@%ing around. Get the dsm link you wont regret it. If you cant get the dsm ling get the hks afr and a logger.

The afc is pretty but the afr is cheaper and easier to tune with. And once again you need a logger to do it right.

 

[MaineDSM]

I've had both the SAFC & the DSMLink.

The DSMLink removes most of the guesswork and made things EASY TO TUNE. With a OBDII logger and a SAFC you have a situation of the blind leading the retarded. Not good.

If you can, get the DSMLink. Learn from my mistake.

1G guys are mad because they can't get the DSMLink. That should tell you something.

As for the AEM, it looks like it can do anything, but the reports I've seen make it seem a little buggy right now, and not NEARLY as easy to use as the other two options. Which makes sense, since it is a stand-alone ECU.

 

[turbotalon92]

Originally posted by MaineDSM
I've had both the SAFC & the DSMLink.

The DSMLink removes most of the guesswork and made things EASY TO TUNE. With a OBDII logger and a SAFC you have a situation of the blind leading the retarded. Not good.

If you can, get the DSMLink. Learn from my mistake.

1G guys are mad because they can't get the DSMLink. That should tell you something.

As for the AEM, it looks like it can do anything, but the reports I've seen make it seem a little buggy right now, and not NEARLY as easy to use as the other two options. Which makes sense, since it is a stand-alone ECU.

Dude, I know you have never used any of those items, you are just some know it all kid who is surfing the net. why would you need any of that to run a t-28...and your best time is a 14.0?

Ignore this guys, paybacks for him butting in on another post.

 

[RocketBoy]

I've run all of them in question. The DSMlink is pretty easy to tune with once you set it up, but in terms of plug/play, the AFC is much easier to use. However, if you can tune at all, the DSMlink will offer you much more capabilities and the logger is also very handy. Just know that it may take 2 people to tune your car quickly.

 

[SPEEDY]

Don't forget about the price differences between them! The DSMlink and the AEM unit do have there advantages, and are probably better for tuning, but if your on a budget then the S-AFC will be suffice. There are alot of quick and fast times out there by people that are using the S-AFC!

 

[hostile]

You arent saving money buying the safc.

You will still need to buy a logger, and need some way to change the ignition timing. Not to mention buying a rev limiter. When you add apples to apples the dsmlink is a very smart investment. Not to mention it logs faster than a pocketlogger.

 

[SPEEDY]

Originally posted by hostile
You arent saving money buying the safc.

You will still need to buy a logger, and need some way to change the ignition timing. Not to mention buying a rev limiter. When you add apples to apples the dsmlink is a very smart investment. Not to mention it logs faster than a pocketlogger.

You are saving money if you don't have a 95 model car. I run race gas all the time in my car so I'm getting pretty good timing advance. I agree the DSMlink is better, but as I said before there are a helluva alot of guys running fast times with the S-AFC. You can get a logger off of ebay for a very cheap price. There are so many variables to compare. I don't think you can pick up a DSMlink very cheap off of the trader or ebay for that matter. I bought my S-AFC way before the DSMlink even came out, so I'm comitted to it as for now. I may go to a DSMlink on down the road but when I do there will probably be something better that comes out the very next day, then we will be back to the same ole argument again of which is better.

 

[MaineDSM]

Originally posted by turbotalon92


Dude, I know you have never used any of those items, you are just some know it all kid who is surfing the net. why would you need any of that to run a t-28...and your best time is a 14.0?

Ignore this guys, paybacks for him butting in on another post.

I deserved that.

 

[TSi92]

Originally posted by MaineDSM


1G guys are mad because they can't get the DSMLink. That should tell you something.

Here's a 1G owner that could care less about the DSMlink. I'm happy with my old style AFC and VPC. I'm about to get the TMO logger (best logger for any dsm period!) and tuning should be a breeze. Let's see, all I have to worry about is 5 knobs and the VPC gain knob. Doesn't get any easier than that!

When I move up the next step i'm gonna ditch the stock ECU anyways. Still not sure if to get the AEM. It's a todd up between the AEM or the autronic.

 

[man_of_saturn]

Question:

For the dsmlink do you have to keep a labtop in your car the whole time.
Are can you some how save the setting and take the labtop out til next time you decide to tune your car again?

 

[NeXtLeVeL]

You can take the laptop out of the car when your not using it. When you need to log something or change something u can just put the laptop back in. You can't log something and then take the laptop out of the car and adjust things tho.

 

[larryd]

ive had both the S-AFC and the DSMlink and let me just tell you the AFC is ALOT easier to setup then the DSMlink. I dont care how many people tell you the DSMlink is all easy and user friendly.. its a pain in the ass.

The things its capable of are wonderful but initial setup is an absolute pita. Ive been trying for well over a month now to get baseline fuel trim settings for low throttle and it just will not work no matter what I try. And the car likes to knock REALLY bad with the DSMlink which I know people running the same setup with AFCs that no issues.

Me personally I would either get an AFC/pocketlogger or if you got the $$ to spend get something more complex like the EMS or Haltech units that completely get rid of the stock ECU thats holding you back

oh and no you dont have to keep the laptop in the car 24x7.. it writes the settings to the eprom on the ECU.

 

[BatmanGSX]

No offense intended, just a warning, but you have no business buying any of them until you know exactly what all the differences are and understand them.

 

[Hal]

Originally posted by larryd
The things its capable of are wonderful but initial setup is an absolute pita. Ive been trying for well over a month now to get baseline fuel trim settings for low throttle and it just will not work no matter what I try. And the car likes to knock REALLY bad with the DSMlink which I know people running the same setup with AFCs that no issues.

MANY people have found the DSMLink to be "plug'n'play'... including myself.

If you can't hit your trim marks, it's because you have issues with the CAR that you need to resolve... things like vented valve cover breathers, leaking intakes, mismatched injectors, etc.

AS far as knock goes. If you're getting knock with the DSMLink, you'll still have it with an AFC... you just won't know it.

DSMLink is telling you that you have problems... a different fuel managment scheme won't make those problems go away.

Hal

 

[candela]

No offense intended, just a warning, but you have no business buying any of them until you know exactly what all the differences are and understand them.

:laugh:

 

[NeXtLeVeL]

Originally posted by larryd
ive had both the S-AFC and the DSMlink and let me just tell you the AFC is ALOT easier to setup then the DSMlink. I dont care how many people tell you the DSMlink is all easy and user friendly.. its a pain in the ass.

The things its capable of are wonderful but initial setup is an absolute pita. Ive been trying for well over a month now to get baseline fuel trim settings for low throttle and it just will not work no matter what I try. And the car likes to knock REALLY bad with the DSMlink which I know people running the same setup with AFCs that no issues.

Me personally I would either get an AFC/pocketlogger or if you got the $$ to spend get something more complex like the EMS or Haltech units that completely get rid of the stock ECU thats holding you back

oh and no you dont have to keep the laptop in the car 24x7.. it writes the settings to the eprom on the ECU.

I would have to say that It's not the dsmlink but your car like Hal said because a S-AFC will do the same thing. DsmLink can t give you knock I would think that it isnt easier but once you get a hang of it, it would be alot more practical and be easier to tune

 

[larryd]

Let me make things clear.. I do not think the DSMlink gives my car knock, I do not think the AFC will effectively get rid of the knock either. I think if your going to go to the next step above an AFC you might as well get rid of the stock ECU in the mixup and get a true standalone so you can deal with knock on a whole different level.

 

[MaineDSM]

Originally posted by larryd
Let me make things clear.. I do not think the DSMlink gives my car knock, I do not think the AFC will effectively get rid of the knock either. I think if your going to go to the next step above an AFC you might as well get rid of the stock ECU in the mixup and get a true standalone so you can deal with knock on a whole different level.

I feel you are totally WRONG. The DSMLink does what 99percent of DSM tuners need. The ability to log almost everything, change the fuel and timing, yet still retain the factory ECU driveability. As for knock... knock is knock is knock is knock. It doesn't matter if you have a Haltech, a DSMLink, or the stock ECU with a SAFC. You *don't want knock* it's BAD. You deal with it the same way no matter what you have. A stand-alone isn't going to give you many more tools over the DSMLink compared to the hell you will go through setting it up.

As for you personally, if you can't get figure out the DSMLink, then I'm afraid you have no chance at *all* of working with a stand-alone. You're speaking rice-boy talk.

-Brent (plugged in DSMLink and it just WORKED... much better than my SAFC)

 

[biddybengbeng]

why are you worried about the ease of tuning it if you are going to have it dyno tuned anyways? once it's tuned, you don't wanna mess with it. that's when 90% of the people run into problems... the DSM link does to a LOT more than the AFC, and would be the wiser of the two investments, especially if you're not the one tuning it

 

[RocketBoy]

Originally posted by MaineDSM


A stand-alone isn't going to give you many more tools over the DSMLink compared to the hell you will go through setting it up.

As for you personally, if you can't get figure out the DSMLink, then I'm afraid you have no chance at *all* of working with a stand-alone. You're speaking rice-boy talk.


Wow, that's all i really have to say. Have you seen a standalone or tried to use one? How can you possibly say they don't offer you many more tools than the DSMlink?
DSMlink is more than what 99% of dsmtuners need. There's plenty of people that can't even figure out how to tune with an afc, much less a tool that gives you control over timing, fuel, and takes quite a bit of playing with to get set up properly. Start with an afc and then work your way up from there.