2G Manual Rack Solution

[Gamble97]

I did this two weeks ago to my ride. I'd just like to point out that the inner tie rod ends should require 5lb force to move them. If they're tight in the sockets but move around, they are NG according to the FSM.

I ended up replacing all 4 tie rod ends and both bellows just to be sure.

What is a bellow?

What rack did you use?

It's a stock 2g rack.

 

[squeak104]

What is a bellow?

That boot on the rack.

 

[psycho]

I'm just curious if this is anything like the "Flyin Miata" mod. Or if there is any other steps you're taking at modifying the rack.

 

[Atuca]

subscribed for results

 

[awdwhip]

Ok, so I had a good nights sleep and now it's time to post my results.

First drive through the parking lot was hell and all driving was done under 10mph.

I feel like the steering is fighting me the whole way and it's easier to turn right then it is left but is still hard to turn either way you go. It also feels kinda spongy turning to the left too.

I'm not going to knock it yet as I still need to get an alignment but I'm just gonna have to wait and see until I get it done on Wednesday(I'm broke )

I hope the steering gets better as the toe is probably off enough to make steering more difficult than it really should be.

When lining up the spline from the rack to the steering shaft the steering wheel was kept as straight as possible and both tie rod ends were measured to have it all line up as evenly as possible to avoid unbolting the steering wheel like a few people have done in the past.

With that being said stay tuned and on Wednesday if not Thursday I'll post my results after some street driving with a proper alignment.

As far as a write up on the removal and install of the ps rack is concerned, I'll post that up a lil later if enough people are interested in one considering that the whole process of the removal is pretty straight forward.

Let me know what you guys think and if you have any questions feel free to ask.


Edit: turning radius is a lil over a full turn of the steering wheel lock to lock.

 

[deth2u]

You modded your own rack?

Yeah. It's not terribly difficult to do at all

I saw the Miata mod and thought, "That doesn't look very hard to do." So I pulled it off my car, tore it down, welded some holes shut, knocked the seal off and rebuilt it.

The plating was starting to wear off the rack, so I'm glad I did it. Figuring the grease is over 11 years old, and the tie rod ends wore past the FSM limits, it's probably a good idea for everyone to do.

I use a 320mm Momo wheel (more effort to turn), but it feels just about the same with the pump off. But it really cleans up the engine bay.

The best approach to less steering effort would be take as much crap off the front axle as possible. Helps with weight distribution also.

 

[awdwhip]

Yeah. It's not terribly difficult to do at all

I saw the Miata mod and thought, "That doesn't look very hard to do." So I pulled it off my car, tore it down, welded some holes shut, knocked the seal off and rebuilt it.

The plating was starting to wear off the rack, so I'm glad I did it. Figuring the grease is over 11 years old, and the tie rod ends wore past the FSM limits, it's probably a good idea for everyone to do.

I use a 320mm Momo wheel (more effort to turn), but it feels just about the same with the pump off. But it really cleans up the engine bay.

The best approach to less steering effort would be take as much crap off the front axle as possible. Helps with weight distribution also.

by that you mean it feels almost like having ps?

Mine doesn't feel CLOSE to having ps I tried to get an alignment a lil while ago but my car is too low so I have to drive like 45 min away and until Monday afternoon to do it.

 

[Gamble97]

by that you mean it feels almost like having ps?

Mine doesn't feel CLOSE to having ps I tried to get an alignment a lil while ago but my car is too low so I have to drive like 45 min away and until Monday afternoon to do it.

There is no way your car sits lower than mine and I can get an alignment. THey put 2.4x under the ramps to get it on the rack. It comes maybe 1/4" before it starts to rub on damn near everyting but it does get on the rack.

 

[DECODER22]

by that you mean it feels almost like having ps?

Mine doesn't feel CLOSE to having ps I tried to get an alignment a lil while ago but my car is too low so I have to drive like 45 min away and until Monday afternoon to do it.

if you dont like it, ill refund your money it is a demo test rack

 

[Atuca]

Yeah. It's not terribly difficult to do at all

I saw the Miata mod and thought, "That doesn't look very hard to do." So I pulled it off my car, tore it down, welded some holes shut, knocked the seal off and rebuilt it.

The plating was starting to wear off the rack, so I'm glad I did it. Figuring the grease is over 11 years old, and the tie rod ends wore past the FSM limits, it's probably a good idea for everyone to do.

I use a 320mm Momo wheel (more effort to turn), but it feels just about the same with the pump off. But it really cleans up the engine bay.

The best approach to less steering effort would be take as much crap off the front axle as possible. Helps with weight distribution also.

Yes I too am interested in your results. I am building my car for road racing and cleaning up the power steering pump sounds like a great idea to me. You said it feels the same as when you had power steering? I somehow doubt it feels the SAME, but with the car just sitting, can you with one hand turn the wheels lock to lock?

I plan to road race, but if i wanted to auto cross at low speed, would doing this mod hurt me?

Please go into more detail about what specifically you did to mod your power steering rack, and your results at low and high speeds. I'm not asking for a step by step mod procedure, but did you just follow the miata mod steps, or did you do some other stuff you think might benefits anyone that wished to follow your build?




DECODER22
----------

What did you do to your rack? awdwhip is complaining it is hard to turn. Did you do anything different from the miata mod? You said you were going to do a write up, care to follow up with that? All I have managed to find is a walk through on a miata forum.

 

[ed_GST]

You said it feels the same as when you had power steering?

From my understanding he means that it feels like it just had the PS belt removed with all the system still in the car

As if the mod didn't make any difference between doing it and just removing the PS belt

 

[deth2u]

Yes I too am interested in your results. I am building my car for road racing and cleaning up the power steering pump sounds like a great idea to me. You said it feels the same as when you had power steering? I somehow doubt it feels the SAME, but with the car just sitting, can you with one hand turn the wheels lock to lock?

I plan to road race, but if i wanted to auto cross at low speed, would doing this mod hurt me?

Please go into more detail about what specifically you did to mod your power steering rack, and your results at low and high speeds. I'm not asking for a step by step mod procedure, but did you just follow the miata mod steps, or did you do some other stuff you think might benefits anyone that wished to follow your build?

Sorry I wasn't exactly clear, I meant to say it feels about the same as when the PS system was disabled. It feels like a regular manual rack.

I originally disabled the system because it was royally pissing me off. Over a period of a few months:

First, the belt popped off, so I reinstalled it. Then the bolts came loose so I took off the pump and re torqued them all. Then the pump was making noise. Later, the bracket bent. The pump then was shaking like the palsy. Then the steering effort slowly started to increase.

After that, since it sounded like I had a murder of banshees under my hood whenever I turned the rack, I had lost all of my patience with the system altogether. I took all that shit off with a mighty #### you, and threw it all in the trash.

My Porsche and my first car were manual racks, so I'm somewhat used to the lack of steering assistance.

Anyway, to answer your question, yes you can turn the wheel with one hand. All you have to do is hold your right hand in front of you, facing the palm. Now put the palm on the back side of the top of the steering wheel. Grab on and pull down while yelling BARRRRRUUUUGGGGHHGHGHHGH. Use your back muscles if necessary. Do all this as if you were trying to curl a 5 ton barbell. To turn right, do the same with your left hand

(If you're moving, even at 1mph, it's not as bad) All I did was remove the hydraulic seals, replace all the tie rod ends, replace the bellows, and re-grease everything. If you just remove the pump, the hydraulic ram acts like a shock absorber since you have to displace the fluid (hydraulic oil or air) through a 1/4" line to turn the rack without the pump operating. This eliminates that extra effort required.

 

[Atuca]

Well, would you recommend it? Would you say with the miata mod you could auto cross without a hitch? You noted that <5 mph makes it nearly impossible, but how is 10+mph? I don't think during auto cross I would drop below that speed often.

From your profile you have a nicely modded dsm it appears, but I don't see any race track info. From what I'm gathering, trying to turn it while not moving is a bi*tch, but long as you are moving, it moves just fine.

If that is the case, I am sold. Im not going to be DDing this and parking this in a tight parkling lot at Walmart; all I'm looking to do is get my car around the staging area, and once I get racing not feel like an idiot for deleting it.

One last clarification and I am good to go with this removal.

 

[deth2u]

Well, would you recommend it? Would you say with the miata mod you could auto cross without a hitch? You noted that <5 mph makes it nearly impossible, but how is 10+mph? I don't think during auto cross I would drop below that speed often.

From your profile you have a nicely modded dsm it appears, but I don't see any race track info. From what I'm gathering, trying to turn it while not moving is a bi*tch, but long as you are moving, it moves just fine.

If that is the case, I am sold. Im not going to be DDing this and parking this in a tight parkling lot at Walmart; all I'm looking to do is get my car around the staging area, and once I get racing not feel like an idiot for deleting it.

One last clarification and I am good to go with this removal.

I really wouldn't recommend it for autocross unless you're an Olympic champion. It costs extra time to move the wheel rapidly from the huge loss in mechanical advantage. It'll make it extremely difficult to hit the lines you want. You're tossing the wheel all over the place in autocross, so it most definitely would hurt your times.

Road racing however, I'd say go for it. You're right, I'm not on the track. You won't find me on a road track anymore because I have a problem with following rules . I think drag racing is lame as well, and I'm not around to entertain the retards out ass-racing on the aluminum bleachers. Unless they have some kind of road racing league that adopts professional-oriented competitive driving rules and light restrictions on mods, you can find me every now and then in one of the many canyon roads here in so cal.

On the better side, the feedback from the wheels is much greater. You can feel the exact breaking point of the front wheels much like a go-cart.

A few years ago on "American Togue", I think it was Tsuchia that said "The NSX probably would have won if it had power steering. The steering effort was too much". It's not impossible to turn the wheel at under 5mph, it's just a pain in the ass. I usually cope with it by making multiple point turns while out crusing. If you want less effort with the manual rack, use the stock steering wheel or the biggest aftermarket ones available (usually 35cm). That and go to the gym more .

 

[awdwhip]

Finally, after waiting for more than a week I got my 4 wheel alignment. My car was too low so I had to drive 35 min away from Bremerton, WA to get one on a pit style alignment rack over at Les Schwab in Gig Harbor.

Over all the steering feels better and the sponginess of the steering went away.

The alignment was off by like 5 degrees on both sides so obviously some adjustments had to be made.

Parking lot driving is barrable and street driving is more than tolerable.

All is good now and I have gotten comfortable and used to not having ps anymore.

IMO this mod was worth it and I would recommend it to anyone who DOESNT have to parallel park their dd. Other than that you should be good.

Now I just have to see how long this modded rack lasts...

 

[DECODER22]

Finally, after waiting for more than a week I got my 4 wheel alignment. My car was too low so I had to drive 35 min away from Bremerton, WA to get one on a pit style alignment rack over at Les Schwab in Gig Harbor.

Over all the steering feels better and the sponginess of the steering went away.

The alignment was off by like 5 degrees on both sides so obviously some adjustments had to be made.

Parking lot driving is barrable and street driving is more than tolerable.

All is good now and I have gotten comfortable and used to not having ps anymore.

IMO this mod was worth it and I would recommend it to anyone who DOESNT have to parallel park their dd. Other than that you should be good.

Now I just have to see how long this modded rack lasts...

it will out last you and the car LoL im glad to hear that you like it and that its working out for you

 

[Atuca]

Finally, after waiting for more than a week I got my 4 wheel alignment. My car was too low so I had to drive 35 min away from Bremerton, WA to get one on a pit style alignment rack over at Les Schwab in Gig Harbor.

Over all the steering feels better and the sponginess of the steering went away.

The alignment was off by like 5 degrees on both sides so obviously some adjustments had to be made.

Parking lot driving is barrable and street driving is more than tolerable.

All is good now and I have gotten comfortable and used to not having ps anymore.

IMO this mod was worth it and I would recommend it to anyone who DOESNT have to parallel park their dd. Other than that you should be good.

Now I just have to see how long this modded rack lasts...

well now that is great to hear. I completely understand what manual rack entails and am ok with a little more effort at low speed manuvering. Its the overall feel at high speed I am after and the cleaning up of the engine bay.

Feel free to check in within a few weeks and let us know if you feel the same about if after a few weeks of driving with it I got at least a month before I am at a point where I am changing my rack out.

 

[awdwhip]

it will out last you and the car LoL im glad to hear that you like it and that its working out for you

I hope so!

well now that is great to hear. I completely understand what manual rack entails and am ok with a little more effort at low speed manuvering. Its the overall feel at high speed I am after and the cleaning up of the engine bay.

Feel free to check in within a few weeks and let us know if you feel the same about if after a few weeks of driving with it I got at least a month before I am at a point where I am changing my rack out.

Will do!

 

[Turbo Juice]

So does this modified rack get any new gearing? Or is it identical to the miata modified rack?

 

[Strm Trpr]

Something like an Evo Style Lock to Lock ratio would be nice...

 

[DECODER22]

So does this modified rack get any new gearing? Or is it identical to the miata modified rack?

same gearing

Something like an Evo Style Lock to Lock ratio would be nice...

anything is possible but i am sure nobody would wanna spend as much money as it would take to make it

 

[Strm Trpr]

Here's a site that has "Fast Steering Columns".
Team Illuminata
Maybe this is an option.
Have you heard of anything like this?

I'm interested in picking up one of these Modded Racks from you.
How do we go about it?

These guys are in Colorado and work on Subby's.
http://column.landefabrication.com/index.html

 

[DECODER22]

Here's a site that has "Fast Steering Columns".
Team Illuminata
Maybe this is an option.
Have you heard of anything like this?

I'm interested in picking up one of these Modded Racks from you.
How do we go about it?

These guys are in Colorado and work on Subby's.
L&E Fabrication

send me a pm

 

[DECODER22]

few people sent me in there cores, anyone else interested?

 

[HurleyTSi]

I am VERY interested in this since my engine bay is apart and I don't want to hook the p/s lines back up.

You have PM.