2G CTS-V brake caliper swap (Brembo)

[housegsx]

Hmm, I don't know. Maybe the bore size is all that matters. ...Unless you run out of stroke in the DSM master cylinder.

It's just trying to match up the master cylinders along with pedal leverage etc that is throwing me off. I think it's trial and error really. If it ends up working for everyone that seems to be upgrading now, great. If not, then it'd be nice to know our options.

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

Has someone done calculated the total piston areas of all the brake options, front and rear? (stock single and dual piston, Evo Brembos front and/or rear, CTSV, etc). Just because the brakes are larger and have more pistons doesn't necessarily mean the total piston area is larger. I'd love to see some type of comparison chart of all the options, in particular the front and rear piston area bias of various options, so as to get an idea of the brake force distribution change, and if there is a change, if it's small enough to be corrected by different brake pad mu, for instance... And if and when a master cylinder change is required, and by how much.

 

[snowborder714]

I believe this is the only calculations I've seen done on the brakes.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/151566605-post38.html

 

[housegsx]

Looks to be a lot more when going 4 piston.

Also, something I notice on that post. Not all 2G proportioning valves are the same. Non-abs cars with the 6-port proportion valve send less pressure to the rear calipers than an abs car.

 

[ApexVIII]

any updates?

 

[m_0ney_pit]

I'm abandoning the idea in favor or fitting the evo8 calipers with 14" rotors with an adapter bracket instead.

The remaining things to investigate were:
find the GXP brembo caliper piston diameter
do more research on the 6-piston cts-v offset and needed brake rotor

 

[Flash]

The Evo8 never came with 14" rotors, I don't see the point of doing it. Is there a reason? Gixxerdrew showed a while back that a good upgrade for the Evo8 calipers was getting the Performance Friction rotors. Last I heard Drew was upgrading to Alcon brakes, maybe he might be willing to part with those Performance Friction rotors.

If your wondering about the Performance Friction rotors: Mitsubishi Performance Friction Direct Drive Racing Rotor Upgrade Kits

 

[Logue]

Quickly bolted up the CTS-V caliper last night. It did not come loaded, like I thought it would!! UGH! So I'm going to have to locate pins and springs and pads. They do fit underneath a 17" rim. The only huge problem is how far they stick out the CTS-V caliper's are very wide, wider than EVO. My 38 offset wheel hits the caliper horribly when bolted up normally. Shaving down the caliper mounting tabs will bring the caliper in up to 10mm. I wouldn't shave more than that for strength reasons, The caliper will not line up with EVO rotor offset if shaved down at all. This project almost seems that your wheel setup will be entirely dependant on what rotor you can use. If you use an 18" rim with larger offset and wheel spacers this might work on EVO VIII rotor so you don't have to shave anything off the caliper itself. I want to keep the 17" at all cost.

So I have found a rotor that is 12.8" with an offset almost double the EVO with a thinkness of 1.20" also. I'm thinking about shaving the caliper mounting ears 10mm on the opposite side the guy on DSMtalk did and than mounting the Caliper on the opposite side of the knuckle mounting ears This will push the caliper inwards about 15-20mm. Allowing me to clear my wheel. I'll have to get some pictures this weekend to better illistrate what I mean.

I do not think a 14" rotor will be possible there is not enough room for the rotor it will hit the top of the caliper when mounted.

I get some pics to show the set-up soon.

 

[Black99gst]

figured i would chime in and say im on the OEM AWD MC with evo brembos all around, and it stops like a dream. free play in minimal, brakes are strong, and couldnt ask for anything more. IMO the perfect Road Course brake setup. (besides the weight of the 13" front rotors)

 

[housegsx]

Good to hear! I'll be hunting for knuckles soon enough.

 

[UnsafeAtAnySpd]

figured i would chime in and say im on the OEM AWD MC with evo brembos all around, and it stops like a dream. free play in minimal, brakes are strong, and couldnt ask for anything more. IMO the perfect Road Course brake setup. (besides the weight of the 13" front rotors)

Two piece Evo rotors are reasonably priced.

 

[Black99gst]

Two piece Evo rotors are reasonably priced.

13" rotors still "weight" more then OEM solid 11" rotors... thus the comment about added weight. im by no means saying its not WORTH the added weight, any time you add more surface area to any rotating object, extending the distance from the center to the outer edge its going to add the effect of "mass", regardless of its actual weight. i suppose i should have worded it differently. perhaps as a direct result of torque on the object (in this case the rotor) the larger the diameter of the rotor, the higher torque will be applied not only by the caliper when stopping, but also by the axles during acceleration. this in turn means more force is needed to change the rotors rotational momentum. I.E. speeding up AND slowing down

 

[UnsafeAtAnySpd]

No, I understand that. I was just saying that to offset some of that, there are 2 piece rotors available for a decent price. Not to mention the added benefit of better heat dissipation.

For my dedicated roadrace car I'm going with the Evo Brembos, 2 piece rotors, Ti shims (can get a discount on these for anybody who wants them), Motul RBF 600 and Hawk race pads.

 

[pboglio]

No, I understand that. I was just saying that to offset some of that, there are 2 piece rotors available for a decent price. Not to mention the added benefit of better heat dissipation.

For my dedicated roadrace car I'm going with the Evo Brembos, 2 piece rotors, Ti shims (can get a discount on these for anybody who wants them), Motul RBF 600 and Hawk race pads.

The hat isn't designed for heat transfer, the fact it heats up is a side affect of being physically bolted to the iron rotor. Its for MOI reduction and putting the rotor weight where its needed most critically, directly beneath the brake pad.

 

[deth2u]

For those of you wondering about the master cylinder, you can use the master cylinder from a Z32 (Nissan 300zx turbo). I'm running it with a larger 3g GT eclipse booster in my car. The cylinder is 1 1/16" depending on year. Lines are the same 10mmx1.0mm, they just need to be bent into place. You will also need to give the shock tower a little loving with a ball peen to clear part of the cylinder.

Be careful as there were 3 different sizes of cylinders in the z32: 15/16", 1", and 1 1/16". There were two suppliers as well--Tokiko and Nabco. Mine is a Nabco 1 1/16".

I'm definitely going to try this swap out though.

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[psycho]

Rockauto has that master cylinder for $120

DORMAN Part # M39777 {First Stop}
w/Power Brakes; Bore = 1-1/16"; To 2/91 $120.79

They have the master cylinder for cheaper but it doesn't come with a reservoir.

 

[RipperXX]

, at first I thought you had mounted it sideways, then I realized just the picture was sideways. I was like "how the hell does he plan to fill it" .


Had me going for a sec there.

 

[deth2u]

, at first I thought you had mounted it sideways, then I realized just the picture was sideways. I was like "how the hell does he plan to fill it" .


Had me going for a sec there.

There is no spoon

 

[Logue]

Here is what I have come up with so far.

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[D_Eclipse9916]

What rotor? any modifications to caliper?

 

[UnsafeAtAnySpd]

Nice. Go turn them gold.

 

[Logue]

What rotor? any modifications to caliper?

I have adopted a plan close to m3oke on dsmtalk.com, I'm using a modified Audi rotor with a 32mm thickness, shaved 10mm off the caliper mounting. And fitted this under my 17" mb battles with no spacers. That was my personal goal to mount these beneath my 17" rims any way possible. Someone else may be able to even use a different combo of rotor and mounting tabs shaved. But that's my basic outline, I don't want to give out to much else until I actually know what really works on the road and such. So there isn't misinformation spread out. I'll keep you guys updated.

 

[EclipticalGS]

Hey Logue, my cars torn apart anyway, i might as well try, edit, ordered one from autozone for $130 will be here tomorrow. Also, What size rotor is woking best for you? 13" ?? I need the diameter that fit for you and the rotor offset, possibly stock offset also. I appreciate it and ill plug away as soon as i order them. i dont have to worry about rims, i have deep 18's

 

[deth2u]

I'm gonna give this a shot with my sparkly evo9 MR SE wheels.

Are you sure it's a good idea to be sizing up backspacing on a full floating caliper without pistons, pads and hairpins? That seems like touchy business there.

Did you get a price on the pistons, pads, seals and hardware yet?

 

[EclipticalGS]

I bought one mockup caliper and am going to autozone or napa to sort through all of thier 5x114.3, 13" rotors, ima grab a couple, try it, return it, and keep doing it.