Installed Walbro 255 along with 560 injectors. Need help tuning for 18 psi.

[MY1GDSM]

Your getting to much timing advance IMO 24* @ 6k?
You INJP droped off right when you started to knock also
Try logging a few less things it help to get better info
Your starting to knock right around peek Cylinder pressure does'nt sound like PK to me. ...

 

[EagleTalonTim]

ok, I tried putting the 2g MAF on it and was a pain so I did not put it on. I will probably just sell it and wait for DSMlink if I can ever afford it so I can use the Speed Density feature. I was able to set the timing to ~2° BTDC but the logger never showed below 7°. I even tried turning the CAS all the way till it stopped and the logger still showed 7°. I did have the timing grounded. Not sure what is going on there. With everything set the same, I did a pull and logged it. It is still doing the exact same thing

here is the log file :
RoadSurge.com - CSV Conversion for ID : 23

I am not sure how to remove the extras out of there. If anyone can fill me in on that I would appreciate it.

I am about to the point to put the 450's back in there and run 15 psi like I was since the $300 worth of upgrade parts is not doing me a bit of good if I can only run it at the same boost level as the 450's.

 

[habitatguy187]

If you already have an eprom ecu you can get Jackal and run speed density for a lot cheaper than link.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tun...l-free-speed-density-tuning-software-1gs.html

 

[steve]

I was able to set the timing to ~2° BTDC but the logger never showed below 7°. I even tried turning the CAS all the way till it stopped and the logger still showed 7°. I did have the timing grounded.

The ECU and logger assume that the CAS is correctly set at 5* BTDC.
If you change the the CAS timing then you need to manually account for the difference.

Grounding the timing adjust terminal puts the ECU into a baseline timing setting of 5* BTDC as long as the RPMs are below 1200 to allow you to adjust the CAS with a timing light to match (synchronize) the mechanical with the electrical.

At this point it might be useful for you to put the car back on the 450s just to see if the problems still exists. That would help you diagnose the issue. I wouldn't be surprised if your knocking remained.

 

[JayRolla]

Your getting to much timing advance IMO 24* @ 6k?
You INJP droped off right when you started to knock also
Try logging a few less things it help to get better info
Your starting to knock right around peek Cylinder pressure does'nt sound like PK to me. ...

I said this because if you look at his first log, he is WOT and no knock in second. As soon as he shifts and hits 3rd he gets knock. Then he states that if he releases the gas and gets back into it the knock will go away for the rest of the run. This is major signs of PK.

Then his second log now looks more like real knock due to high timing, which is what sucks about the 1g's and also is a good thing. For me I run e85 and the stock 1g timing map is perfect. But for him its an issue.

 

[JayRolla]

ok, I tried putting the 2g MAF on it and was a pain so I did not put it on. I will probably just sell it and wait for DSMlink if I can ever afford it so I can use the Speed Density feature. I was able to set the timing to ~2° BTDC but the logger never showed below 7°. I even tried turning the CAS all the way till it stopped and the logger still showed 7°. I did have the timing grounded. Not sure what is going on there. With everything set the same, I did a pull and logged it. It is still doing the exact same thing

here is the log file :
RoadSurge.com - CSV Conversion for ID : 23

I am not sure how to remove the extras out of there. If anyone can fill me in on that I would appreciate it.

I am about to the point to put the 450's back in there and run 15 psi like I was since the $300 worth of upgrade parts is not doing me a bit of good if I can only run it at the same boost level as the 450's.

Like steve said you have to manual adjust the timing numbers unless you logger has a feature to adjust base timing like MMCD.

Did you leave the timing at 2* base. You should hear the motors idle change when you lower the timing and you are using a timing light right?

I think you have a PK and real knock issue. Does you car get rid of all lower rpm knock if you release the gas and get back on it real fast?

 

[EagleTalonTim]

Just got back from a drive with the 450's back in, the boost back at 15psi and the SAFC set back to normal and guess what......

There was no knock at all.

Going to put the 560 back in and set them for the 15psi again....

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I am using MMCD as the logger and yep, I am using a timing light along with some chalk on the timing mark on the harmonic balancer.

 

[steve]

There was no knock at all.

Going to put the 560 back in and set them for the 15psi again....

So there is a problem with the injector install or your being pushed into part of the timing map that causes the car to knock.

Did you have the injectors flow tested before installation?

 

[MY1GDSM]

What version of mmcd?

 

[EagleTalonTim]

No, I did not get them flow tested. I don't think there is anywhere around here that can do that. The MMCD version is 1.8g

 

[MY1GDSM]

Napa here does it. ...

 

[EagleTalonTim]

Got done installing the 560's again and tuning it to 15psi.

Here is the log with the 560's @ 15psi.
RoadSurge.com - CSV Conversion for ID : 24

1 count of knock @ 6500 RPM. So I guess I am topped out with a $200 SAFC that is supposed to handle up to 650 injectors?

Here is what my SAFC is set to :

RPM | Low | High
800 | -13 | -13
1200 | -15 | -15
2600 | -20 | -19
3000 | -23 | -22
3600 | -23 | -22
4000 | -23 | -22
5000 | -22 | -22
5600 | -22 | -20
6000 | -22 | -17
6600 | -18 | -14
7000 | -18 | -14

 

[jking29]

You might be able to gain another couple of psi by turning down your base pressure to around 32psi and retuning.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

The reason releasing the gas and getting back in it clears the knock is because the ECU is coded to 0 the knock count at 0% throttle. It is still possibly it is the tune at this point, when letting off and getting back on it, the boost/timing curve does not make a knock event when the boost comes back.

If you want to know if it's real knock or not, turn the boost down a little and put in 116 octane and see what happens. If that takes care of the problem then it's a tuning problem.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I wound up going back to the 450 injectors for now. I am removing the SAFC and am going to try and sell it and find an EEPROM Ecu. It looks like the best way for me to tune is to get some type of EEPROM programmer and flash my own chips. If anyone know where I can find a good EEPROM ECU let me know It does not have to be socketed since I can do this myself.

 

[steve]

It's EPROM not EEPROM.

Classifides here under the Marketplace pulldown.
A local DSM Board.
eBay
EPROM conversion from ECMTuning.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

Oh ok. I thought it was EEPROM since that stands for Electrically Erasable Programmable Read-Only Memory and EPROM stands for Erasable Programmable Read-Only Memory which can only be erased with an ultraviolet light.

Thanks for clearing that up

I am searching the classifieds now. Hopefully I don't get screwed again

 

[steve]

And the factory 1G ECU has no provision to erase. The original chips are UV erasable EPROMS.
Some people use 27xxx series compatible Flash and EEPROMS but they are erased and programmed externally.

I am quite aware of the differences.

 

[EagleTalonTim]

So there are other EPROM's that will work with our DSM's? I read somewhere that Motorola has a chip very similar to the one in the EPROM ECU's. It would be nice to have an external programmer so I can have a few chips laying around that I can tune with different settings.

 

[MY1GDSM]

If you go that route with a chip burner, I would get the ostrich emulator so you can tune on the fly

 

[EagleTalonTim]

I did look into that and I may go with that later down the road when the financial situation gets better. Since I have a little boy on the way in about a month, I need to watch how much I spend. I do have experience in programming so I am hoping I can get things rolling with a simple burner at first, then upgrade

 

[JayRolla]

The reason releasing the gas and getting back in it clears the knock is because the ECU is coded to 0 the knock count at 0% throttle. It is still possibly it is the tune at this point, when letting off and getting back on it, the boost/timing curve does not make a knock event when the boost comes back.

If you want to know if it's real knock or not, turn the boost down a little and put in 116 octane and see what happens. If that takes care of the problem then it's a tuning problem.

Hmmm, never thought of it that way. In my situation it is PK because I run e85 and I had the same knock at 10psi and 2g timing map(16*max) as I do at 32psi and a 1g timing map(22*max).

In his situation it must be real knock and like steve said It has to be because he is in the wrong part of the timing map.

 

[steve]

So there are other EPROM's that will work with our DSM's?

The circuit board was done for a 27128 chip and only top 16k (C000 to EFFF) is mapped. You can use any compatible device like a 27C512 EPROM or a 27SF512 Flash or the now out of production AT29C256 EEPROM. As stated a Moates Ostrich works well too.

I read somewhere that Motorola has a chip very similar to the one in the EPROM ECU's. It would be nice to have an external programmer so I can have a few chips laying around that I can tune with different settings.

There are no pin compatible CPU replacements. The MH6111 is a member of the 6800 family with most of the M68HC11 instruction set but with some M6801 style features. All the code is in MH6111 assembler.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Why is your coolant temp stuck at 25 degrees Celsius? Your last log with the 560's looked good to me.