My new e85 16g setup!!

[matthewdesigns]

werd. I dropped back to 22psi the other day when I switched over to pump91 for a road trip, and feels like stock . This turbo on my setup loves to be at 24+psi, at least on e85.

 

[JayRolla]

Yea its wierd. 20psi on mine also felt like stock. My buddy is running 20psi on his 16g and he was with me. He laughed and was like it feels like my car which we always call slow.

 

[mobythevan]

OK, I've seen enough of you guys running higher boost with E85. I am going to make the switch this weekend. I have only been running 18psi on my 18G turbo for the last couple years. I'm going to re-tune this weekend at 18psi on E85 and get that part out of the way. Then I have a new clutch and O2 housing to install. I am going to do a bit more porting on my turbine while I'm in there then I will turn up to 26psi and do some more tuning. Can't wait to see what that feels like. I only have 850cc injectors so we'll see if they max out before the turbo.

 

[JayRolla]

I would set boost at 18 like you said and if you have injector space then keep going. You should be fine for 25psi and some good timing, but only logs will tell. Glad you made the jump. What kind of 18g you running?

 

[matthewdesigns]

They will definitely max out on e85 before the turbo does, especially if you really crank the boost knob. But it'll definitely be more fun than pump gas even at slightly elevated boost levels, provided you have some timing control. Just keep an eye on IDC's, AFR's, and knock, and you'll know how far is too far for your injectors.

 

[Brianawd]

If you are going to buy arp head studs then just get a set of L19. The off the shelf ARP's for are car a junk. I would much rather use a set of stock 6bolt head bolts than off the shelf arps. Don't waist your money Just step up now

 

[JayRolla]

Yea he would run out of injector up here. My brother on his 16g at 30psi see's 78% IDC on 1000cc injectors.

 

[mobythevan]

After I get swapped over I'll start bumping it up 2psi at a time and see when I run out of fuel. It is no big deal if I need to get larger injectors, but I'll see how it feels when the 850's are about maxed out. That will likely be good enough for me for a while.

 

[Black_Bullet]

My bad.....Figured I'd take some 'flack' for what I said but I am not wishing any ill-will towards your goals. I was thinking because of the 16g being pushed so hard and all the backpressure being generated that the engine wouldnt like it too much.

I obviously dont have all the knowledge of tuning that you do which is why I follow these threads. You're a pretty active member so I follow a lot of what you are doing. I thought the 16g was best suited for at the most 20 psi and if you wanted to push it harder then something larger would be better suited for the task. My WG nipple popped off one hot summer day and boosted to 22 psi on 93 shell vpower. It made two really loud pow's and the blackest cloud of smoke i'd ever seen through my rear view. Compression test concluded everything was fine though. Maybe the 16g isnt that brutal after all or I just got lucky.

Sounds like boost leak, like your car went real rich all of a sudden and had a rich back fire ^.
22psi isnt that bad on a 16g, anything over 25lbs is when you are pushing too much heat and having tuning difficulties ( on regular pump gas at least) and start questioning reliability.

Yea its wierd. 20psi on mine also felt like stock. My buddy is running 20psi on his 16g and he was with me. He laughed and was like it feels like my car which we always call slow.

20psi on a 16g with stock cams is slow, I remember those days

Yea he would run out of injector up here. My brother on his 16g at 30psi see's 78% IDC on 1000cc injectors.

I cant see how your IDCs are going so high, especially up there at your altitude... I mean hell e85 is only like a 30% difference in fuel requirements over 93 octane, and most people tune high10s - low 11 AFR on 93 octane, E85 can easily get away with high 11s- low 12s AFR. So with a good enough pump and correct fuel pressure
( 43psi base) you'd think 850s would take you to just about 500hp at the crank with 93 in the tank, and Ive always calculated a 40 horsepower lose at the wheels on awd which translates to a dsm with 850s not reaching 100% IDC's until high mid 400hp range on 93 so Id assume it could do at LEAST low 400ish at the wheels on ethanol if you really maxed the injectors out..

This is also assuming the fuel pressure is what the injectors are rated for ( I believe 43psi base) and that the fuel lines arent clogged, and that theres a fresh fuel filter ( or preferably upgraded filter) and a pump thats having no issues keeping up.

 

[dsm-onster]

Hmmm, 0.7 X 850cc = 600cc. ??? 600cc injectors are NOT enough for 500crank hp with gasoline. So 30% larger 850s won't be enough for 500 crank hp with e85.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Hmmm, 0.7 X 850cc = 600cc. ??? 600cc injectors are NOT enough for 500crank hp with gasoline. So 30% larger 850s won't be enough for 500 crank hp with e85.

Im sure your right, I ment to say I thought 850s were rated 500 crank HP on 93 for our cars, so assuming 40 hp drivetrain lose I didnt see why they couldnt do low 400s whp on e85 with everything flowing properly and correct fuel pressure, and a bit leaner afr due to e85s ability to resist knock.
So what airflow do you think 100% IDC would occur on 850s...

I have 850s in mines but I run 48psi base fuel pressure, with that said, I think my injectors could reach the whp numbers I stated, but with high enough boost I dont think my pump will.

 

[dsm-onster]

Well if 850s with pump gas is good for 460whp and e85 requires 30% more fuel for stoich, then 850s will supply enough fuel for 70% of 460whp or 322whp. Now e85 outputs more horsepower per unit fuel, and can be run closer to stoich for peak torque. So that rule of thumb is scewed at best. But 80 hp more? Best to find out the typical results. For example, Jayrolla's brother runs 1000cc injectors and they are peaking at 78% IDC with e85 and this equates to 780cc or 850s at 91% IDC. He's at a high altitude, so expect pushing the 850s to their absolute limit with his setup in Florida. Now what was his horsepower (estimated or at least an airflow number) with his 16g setup?

 

[jrohner]

If 850's aren't big enough for at least 450 dynjet awhp you'd have to be running way richer than necessary. I don't know what the IDC is on my 750's, but I have tuned richer than I normally run to see if my injectors were maxed and it worked fine. My cousin is running 680's at 325awhp (stock SMIC, imitation Evo3 16g @ 24psi). If I get an Evo 8 ecu soon for my car like I want to, I should then be able to see the IDC.

 

[Black_Bullet]

If 850's aren't big enough for at least 450 dynjet awhp you'd have to be running way richer than necessary. I don't know what the IDC is on my 750's, but I have tuned richer than I normally run to see if my injectors were maxed and it worked fine. My cousin is running 680's at 325awhp (stock SMIC, imitation Evo3 16g @ 24psi). If I get an Evo 8 ecu soon for my car like I want to, I should then be able to see the IDC.

Never heard of that .

Well Im not too worried about the IDC's, if I need to get bigger injectors then Ill just get some 1000c's down the line, but I think my setup can do 400awhp with 850s on e85 and my fuel pressure.
The 48psi base pressure upped the injectors flow rate a lot. I dont remember what it brought it up to though but its in the low 900cc range.

I dont plan on running e85 anytime soon anyways, 93octane will suffice for my goals since Im going with a bigger turbo now, and Id like to build motor before pushing her on ethanol/ or much beyond 400awhp.
Dsmonster thanks for clearing that up , I was just assuming since I hadnt ran e85 yet.

 

[mobythevan]

Well Im not too worried about the IDC's, if I need to get bigger injectors then Ill just get some 1000c's down the line, but I think my setup can do 400awhp with 850s on e85 and my fuel pressure.

That is my thought as well. I'll see where 850's take me and then upgrade if I need to. I brought my gas cans with me today to get the E85 so I can start tuning on it tomorrow. I am too scared to fill up at the pump today and switch my injector size for the drive home. I would probably end up stalled at a major intersection

 

[Black_Bullet]

That is my thought as well. I'll see where 850's take me and then upgrade if I need to. I brought my gas cans with me today to get the E85 so I can start tuning on it tomorrow. I am too scared to fill up at the pump today and switch my injector size for the drive home. I would probably end up stalled at a major intersection

I dont think its that big a deal, just watch the AFR.

 

[JayRolla]

Me and my brother are close in setups. Ive seen 69% IDC's on my 1200's. He see's 78% on 1000's. He has no boost leaks and I have a hefty one at about 15psi at an injector seal.

 

[mobythevan]

Well, I got it swapped over to E85 today. Spent all day driving it around and tuning on it. It seems to do really good. I am still at 18psi. I'll drive it a week and then think about upping the boost a bit. The only tuning that should be left now is cold starting stuff. I have megasquirt so some things are a little different for me. Otherwise I am very happy with the change over. I did add more timing across the table under boost and it pulls really good. I am still conservative but I want to take it easy adding timing and boost over a few weeks.

 

[JayRolla]

Why. Just take a day and add timing/boost. Doing it over time wont make it any safer?

 

[mobythevan]

Why. Just take a day and add timing/boost. Doing it over time wont make it any safer?

No, but it will make my money last longer when I break stuff and I don't have a lot of money right now.

 

[jrohner]

I would say to just start out with a timing table similar to the stock 1g one. They are fairly aggressive for high boost.

 

[JayRolla]

I agree, stock 1g timing map is I think 22* peak than drops a few at 6000rpms.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Are any of you guys having any traction problems with these aggressive e85 tunes on 16gs or bigger in your AWDs? Like JayRolla, your setup for example?

 

[JayRolla]

Yes, very badly. I spin all the way through 1st no madder what I launch at. I launch too low than I fall out a boost a little and I dont like that either.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Yes, very badly. I spin all the way through 1st no madder what I launch at. I launch too low than I fall out a boost a little and I dont like that either.

Yea the reason Im asking you guys is because at 25psi right now, this cold weather is making boost hold longer and Im still seeing 19degs peak timing, 11.3 afrs on 93 octane, and Ive been noticing my car getting a little squirmey also and I have welded diff?

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