Just Went Speed Density, WOW!!!!!!

[toofast82]

I've been doing my own eprom editing for a bit as my only tuning tool. I have been using the POS 1g MaF(Yes I know guys have run 10s on it) on my car. I would make a pull and the car would be good with no knock, then I would make another pass a few minutes later and I would get like 10-15 counts of knock and car would feel horrible. I had been reading a lot on dsm ecu yahoo group as well as ds-map.net about speed density. So I went out and bought a 3bar map sensor and IAT sensor, bought the harness from Full Throttle. I burned a program from the files in the yahoo group under projects and edited using tunerpro . i set my injectors, afr, timing, etc. I took it out and the car was running very rich which was my doing. Went and leaned it out some and WOW!! what a difference. I made pull after pull with no knock. I was hitting about 20psi and settling to about 17 at redline. My timing map goes up to 22deg and im running straight 93. Before I wouldnt even be able to run more than 17deg without knock and that was first pass only. I used the base ve maps on ds-map.net and have yet to have to adjust them. It does idle kinda crappy cold for a minute but then smooths out, but ill fix that. I only drove for about an hour with speed density but the car has never felt so good!!! There still seems to be plenty of wot fine tuning i can still do to get even more out of it. I had another Dsm with big turbo that i used the maft and one of jeffs chips that was a successful combo which i think because it was reading the pressure and temp pretty close to the tb. It would totally kick ass if i had a laptop with the ostrich and could do adjustments in the car, but for now ill just keep taking the ecu out to make my adjustments. Thanks a million to all of the geniuses on the ecu yahoo group who make this possible! Thanks Nick and Hakcenter for all youve done on the speed density project for dsms. Seems to make my tuning life a lot easier. Feel free to ask any questions about the install! Got a FP18g that I'm gonna put on, Cant wait!

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Oh wow, formatting.

But I'm glad you're satisfied with the setup though!

 

[Boost92awd]

How much did it cost your for your whole speed density setup?

 

[webconnect]

I'm looking at going speed density myself. Still in the beginning stages of research though. Good to hear!

 

[toofast82]

I had my ecu socketed which is $60. I spent a lot of time researching hex code and a lot of time in the dsmecu group on yahoo and ds-map.net. I bought a chip programmer for $100 that came with 5 reusable. If you have access to a laptop, i would definitely buy the Ostrich Emulator ($175)to do the real time in the car editing which is much easier to tune. I used the bin and xdf file for speed density in the projects section in ecu yahoo group, loaded them up to tunerpro and set up my injectors,timing, afr etc. Doesnt cost u much and u can do everything if u have some hex knowledge and read on the forums for some codes. there is a helpful site with a lot of code changes which is hwnd.org

 

[toofast82]

As for 2gs they dont have it this simple. They do have the computer files for 2g in ecu yahoo group. its just a matter of someone making the necessary changes to run the speed density as they did for 1g ecu. Part of the reason i went with it two was because i had no room for a good filter and to block the heat on the stock mas cause of my intercooler pipes. or else id probably would have used the 2g maf. but im very happy with the speed density though! dsmlink does have a maf clamping feature where u hook up a map sensor and set it and lock out maf and itll calculate like speed density, but u still have to have the maf. On my other dsm, i used the maft with gm maf and liked it, it was very tunable.

 

[SpeedAddict62]

How much did it cost your for your whole speed density setup?

Eprom ECU = $250 ish, watch the classifieds
Socket ECU = $60
Ostrich Eprom Emulator = $175 (worth every penny, easy to use and quick too)
GM 3 Bar MAP sensor = $50-60
GM IAT sensor = $15
Wideband 02 sensor = $200+
Harness = $40 from Full Throttle Speed

The wideband is really needed to get your VE tables in order. Also, with DSMAP you have the option to run it in place of your stock narrowband. Also, the harness is optional, since it would be easy enough to build one yourself if you have all the pigtails, but if you don't you might as well buy the one from Full Throttle Speed and save yourself the trouble of hunting them down.

To the OP, sorry for the threadjack haha. What made you decide to use Tunerpro instead of the DSMAP software?

 

[jrohner]

I got my ostrich emulator on ebay for like $110. All 3 91 cars I've had, had EPROM ecu's in them. A LC1 can be had for about $180 new with the sensor, otherwise you can get the sensor itself at NAPA -- VW's use the exact one and get a JAW controller pretty cheap.

 

[SpeedAddict62]

I got my ostrich emulator on ebay for like $110. All 3 91 cars I've had, had EPROM ecu's in them. A LC1 can be had for about $180 new with the sensor, otherwise you can get the sensor itself at NAPA -- VW's use the exact one and get a JAW controller pretty cheap.

Ebay, fair enough, although it is nice to be sure you are getting a brand new product and helping to support moates.net.

The two 90's cars that I've had/worked on were both non-eprom. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. Obviously, anyone looking to do this already has or is going to check their ECU for an EPROM.

True, the LC1 can be had for that much. I was talking about a wideband controller, sensor and gauge kit, guess I should have been more specific. I would recommend spending the extra money for a gauge, just so if something is going really wrong, you'll know instantly. Just personal preference.

 

[jrohner]

Ebay, fair enough, although it is nice to be sure you are getting a brand new product and helping to support moates.net.

The two 90's cars that I've had/worked on were both non-eprom. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. Obviously, anyone looking to do this already has or is going to check their ECU for an EPROM.

True, the LC1 can be had for that much. I was talking about a wideband controller, sensor and gauge kit, guess I should have been more specific. I would recommend spending the extra money for a gauge, just so if something is going really wrong, you'll know instantly. Just personal preference.

It's not some knockoff, so it's not going against moates in any way. They are on backorder from moates anyways right now, so you can't buy a new one from them. Why does an item have to be new to be good? Guess I should've bought a new car too So many people are all anti-ebay on here; if you buy something on ebay you are the devil or something.

You can get a nice digital voltmeter for like 15 bucks to hook up to your wideband as a AFR display instead of spending a bunch of money for something that does the same thing.

 

[jrohner]

For sure.

 

[SpeedAddict62]

jr stop thinking outside the box, seriously, you may give people ideas

Seriously man...what the hell are you thinking?

Stop being so frugal!

And back to the topic...I still want to know why he decided to use Tunerpro over DSMAP.

 

[jrohner]

I think if I went dsmap, I'd use tunerpro as well. I opened the dsmap program and took a look at it a while back. Tuner pro is awesome. The user interface is so nice, both looks and functionality. It's so easy to add and modify items to the way you like to see them. Like my e85 tune, i can change it in 10 seconds to display the map to show real e85 AFR's. If I find another map in the code, I can add it to tunerpro in less than a minute.

 

[SpeedAddict62]

Ah, I see. I use Tunerpro RT now, but I don't have a MAP and IAT sensor yet, so I'm still on running off the MAF. I really like Tunerpro too, its very straightforward to use, even when I first started tuning. I have downloaded the DSMAP software but haven't really played with it a whole lot. I'm assuming you just use the same .bin as the DSMAP users do, with a .xdf customized for it?

 

[toofast82]

The reason i use the tunerpro, because dsmap is swithching to v2 and all the beta from v1 has been taken out. so i was unable to get my hands on the first version. i do have my tables set up for dsmap v2 but it is not set up to be burnt to a chip. Hakcenter i believe is working on this to have it formatted to a chip. there is an additional 16bytes, thats why. The xdf for tunerpro has everthing to tune and is based off e931 so other changes correlate as well. I am waiting to try out dsmap2!, but the tunerpro files have been working very good for me for the last 4days. Also note, i dont know if i got a bad one or something, but my harness from fullthrottle was a mfer to plug into the map sensor and it only goes one way, but was very hard to click in, had to push full strength with two hands.

 

[toofast82]

I currently dont have a wideband, so ive been tuning the car off of knock, it seems i have a lot of room to lean out, but the car does feel at a safe tune. i have yet to even touch the ve tables, i used the ones they have set up for dsmap2 for a 2.0. they seem to work great so i definitely want to thank nick and hakcenter for getting these very close. ive just messed with my afr and timing ### i had it set at stock afr just to be safe and have leaned out from there some but i can definitely go leaner. I was a little nervous on trying it out, but definitely glad i did. the car is now very tunable and am able to run great timing and boost on 93. I cant wait to get a race gas chip set up and really let er rip!

 

[toofast82]

I spoke to the tech guy at FTT who denies this about the pins. He did offer to swap the harnesses if i sent mine in but i drive it every day. i didnt get a pigtail when i bought the map sensor. it was a new msd. it has stayed plugged in so far but i am very unhappy with the fit. it had to press the hell out of it!

 

[airmail96]

Correction I didn't. You just have to make sure you buy a three bar with out the pins already inserted into them. I'd provide an ebay link to show you what I'm talking about, but my internet is slow I'm sure you have seen them though. Anyway I switched to speed density like a month or 2 ago and I love it. I think my whole setup wasn't to much, if you go with the jaw wideband you can have a wideband for pretty cheap.
ds-map
GM 3 Bar Map Sensor 59.94
GM IAT 14.9975
Full Throttle SD Cable 40
Ostrich v 2.0 184.56
Socketing 40
WB Sensor 59.94
JAW WB Controller 90
3/8 in Bung 13.75
503.18
You can save money by making your own cable, and shoping around on the prices a little, but I think thats what my spreadsheet came out to after everything was said and done.

 

[MidnightTSI]

Even though this is somewhat old news (besides V2 coming out for DS-MAP) I would like to say thanks to everyone who had a part in developing this tuning technology.

I have been reading about different tuning tools a lot lately and I have finally made up my mind. I will be going with the speed density setup. I am without a doubt a noob in the tuning realm so this should be a unique experience. It seems as if the information that is needed is all over the internet so I should be alright with plenty of initiative and research. I am currently deployed in Baghdad, so I am trying to decide what I will use to tune my new setup once I get home. I only put 500 miles on the new motor before I left. Check out my profile for mods if you are curious

I was originally planning on going with DSM Link, the GM MAF, and the MAF-T. The density setup is obviously way less expensive, with the same or even better performance posibilities!! I am going to keep reading and educating myself, so that once I get home it will be game on!

I am just curious if anyone has used DSM Link, and then switched to Speed Density? Do you like it better? If so, why? Thanks in advance for any responses.

 

[90_Talon_TSi_AWD]

I've been doing my own eprom editing for a bit as my only tuning tool. I have been using the POS 1g MaF(Yes I know guys have run 10s on it) on my car. I would make a pull and the car would be good with no knock, then I would make another pass a few minutes later and I would get like 10-15 counts of knock and car would feel horrible. I had been reading a lot on dsm ecu yahoo group as well as ds-map.net about speed density. So I went out and bought a 3bar map sensor and IAT sensor, bought the harness from Full Throttle. I burned a program from the files in the yahoo group under projects and edited using tunerpro . i set my injectors, afr, timing, etc. I took it out and the car was running very rich which was my doing. Went and leaned it out some and WOW!! what a difference. I made pull after pull with no knock. I was hitting about 20psi and settling to about 17 at redline. My timing map goes up to 22deg and im running straight 93. Before I wouldnt even be able to run more than 17deg without knock and that was first pass only. I used the base ve maps on ds-map.net and have yet to have to adjust them. It does idle kinda crappy cold for a minute but then smooths out, but ill fix that. I only drove for about an hour with speed density but the car has never felt so good!!! There still seems to be plenty of wot fine tuning i can still do to get even more out of it. I had another Dsm with big turbo that i used the maft and one of jeffs chips that was a successful combo which i think because it was reading the pressure and temp pretty close to the tb. It would totally kick ass if i had a laptop with the ostrich and could do adjustments in the car, but for now ill just keep taking the ecu out to make my adjustments. Thanks a million to all of the geniuses on the ecu yahoo group who make this possible! Thanks Nick and Hakcenter for all youve done on the speed density project for dsms. Seems to make my tuning life a lot easier. Feel free to ask any questions about the install! Got a FP18g that I'm gonna put on, Cant wait!

This is a very old thread but I'd like to know if those that followed this thread are still here on the forum.
I am attempting to bring my Moates Speed Density setup back to life and welcome any suggestions.
I'm finding some old links on other forums that I am not a member on but the links are all dead anyway.
And I can read the posts but all of the pictures are gone, even to those that are members there so I'd like to get all my answers here if possible.

 

[jamel16]

This is a very old thread but I'd like to know if those that followed this thread are still here on the forum.
I am attempting to bring my Moates Speed Density setup back to life and welcome any suggestions.
I'm finding some old links on other forums that I am not a member on but the links are all dead anyway.
And I can read the posts but all of the pictures are gone, even to those that are members there so I'd like to get all my answers here if possible.

Yeah I still have my moates setup packed away. I never used it before going to link but I think I have the files on one of my hard drives

 

[90_Talon_TSi_AWD]

Awesome, I'll PM you.

 

[toofast82]

This is a very old thread but I'd like to know if those that followed this thread are still here on the forum.
I am attempting to bring my Moates Speed Density setup back to life and welcome any suggestions.
I'm finding some old links on other forums that I am not a member on but the links are all dead anyway.
And I can read the posts but all of the pictures are gone, even to those that are members there so I'd like to get all my answers here if possible.

I'm still around