anybody have a external gated 14b?

[asd_gst]

so im planing on running a external wastegate on the o2. but ill be keeping a 14b for a while, and building the car until i max out the turbo so turbo will be one of the last things i replace. but i was just wondering if anyone has a external wastegate on a 14b, ive seen one person with a 16g with wastegate on the o2. but i have a e316g turbine housing ill be using for the external wastegate. so i guess basicly my question is has anyone ever done this with a 14b? and will it make a differnce power wise? i know it should control boost better

 

[fwdmaster]

Just holds boost better what you stated, as for power wise nothing but a train wreck noise when the wastegate opens.Btw how many pounds of boost are you maxing out the 14b to?

 

[winterftbl]

I would just wait until I upgraded my turbo, because its not worth it imo. But thats just me.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

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Was going to be my backup turbo in case something happened to the HTA. It's an 18g, but same concept. Better boost control, and more power by dumping the gate out instead of recirculating it. I made it to be a bolt-on replacement in case my main turbo system died, for whatever reason.

 

[caliboy23]

I ran a 40mm external gate off my 14B for a while and LOVED it. I never took the turbo off till it was time to upgrade, so obviously I never ported the housing for better boost control. But when I put that external gate on the boost was dialed in PERFECT. If I wanted 16 psi, I set the boost controller to 16 psi and never got any more than that at ANY rpm. When before, I used to adjust for high RPM creep which was usually a good 3-4 psi. Plus when that external 40mm gate opens you KNOW it. Especially when your venting it to the atmosphere. It sounds like a seriously pissed off 4G63. I'll never run anything but external gates now. I love em that much.

 

[asd_gst]

im running 13-12 psi now due to a cracked housing boost just slowly drops, but ill be runnig around 14psi. and this is the set up im going to do once i get my bigger turbo so im not really worried about changing the set up down the road, at least not the wastegate set up

 

[99gst_racer]

Like stated above A bigger wastegate will make more power.

How? Please explain...

A DUMPED wastegate will make more power, vice a recirculated one.

How? Please explain...

 

[kittay]

Normally runs 14psi I believe.

Best pic I could find:

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[matt98eclipse]

I just recently changed my setup to a external on my 16g and i love it. It gives me a rock solid amount of boost. It only costed me 25$ to get the 38mm wastgate flang welding to the manifold.

Heres a pic i took today. I still need to remove the internal wastegate.

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22psi for now. I need to do some more tuning and up it to around 25 maybe more depending on how well my motor holds up. Gotta love that E85 fuel.

 

[mach4g63t]

Hmm....

I'm about 110% sure I posted an explanation of why I think a dumped gate makes more power than a recirculated one.

I believe it went something like this,

A dumped wastegate will make more power because the gas being dumped by the gate, vice recirculated, will not have to fight with the gas going through the turbo to make its way out the exhaust. The result is less back pressure, creating a more responsive engine that will achieve peak power faster and longer.

It was even stated on the Buschur racing site that they typically never recirculate a wastegate because of the same reasons.


HOWEVER, if I am wrong... rather than deleting my post, it would've been a little more worthwhile and informative to simply correct me with a reply. Maybe that defeats the purpose...

 

[99gst_racer]

A dumped wastegate will make more power because the gas being dumped by the gate, vice recirculated, will not have to fight with the gas going through the turbo to make its way out the exhaust. The result is less back pressure, creating a more responsive engine that will achieve peak power faster and longer.

The difference is splitting hairs. The difference in backpressure probably isn't even measurable, and probably won't yield any measurable power difference either. As long as the car has a large diameter exhaust, and the transition from the dumptube to exhaust system is gradual and smooth, there won't be a "fight" that will lose power.

And regardless, the unmeasurable amount that your referring to is not actually "making more power"; it would be considered "freeing up power".

Keep in mind that a wastegate is only a means of boost control. It doesn't "add" power and it doesn't "remove" power.

 

[mach4g63t]

The difference is splitting hairs. The difference in backpressure probably isn't even measurable, and probably won't yield any measurable power difference either. As long as the car has a large diameter exhaust, and the transition from the dumptube to exhaust system is gradual and smooth, there won't be a "fight" that will lose power.

And regardless, the unmeasurable amount that your referring to is not actually "making more power"; it would be considered "freeing up power".

Keep in mind that a wastegate is only a means of boost control. It doesn't "add" power and it doesn't "remove" power.

What do you mean by "freeing up power"?

* Ninja Edit *

Also, where my logic from this idea is coming from is that you can dyno a car with a full cat back system. Hypothetically, X-setup with aftermarket exhaust makes Y-amount of horsepower. I've actually seen dyno sessions where the owner was trying to squeeze that extra ounce of power out of his vehicle to hit say 500hp. He removed his exhaust from the DP back and actually increased his peak horsepower by just enough to hit his target. Thus my reasoning by dumping exhaust gas should yield an increase in horsepower. Granted, as you said, the amount being dumped through the WG is small, but it should make a difference, right?

 

[fwdmaster]

This thread should be called "Battle of the external wastegate talk"

mach4g63t VS 99gst_racer

 

[BigSorn]

he would have to put the catback back on for it to be legal though....


asd_gst, you get that housing yet?

 

[99gst_racer]

What do you mean by "freeing up power"?

* Ninja Edit *

Also, where my logic from this idea is coming from is that you can dyno a car with a full cat back system. Hypothetically, X-setup with aftermarket exhaust makes Y-amount of horsepower. I've actually seen dyno sessions where the owner was trying to squeeze that extra ounce of power out of his vehicle to hit say 500hp. He removed his exhaust from the DP back and actually increased his peak horsepower by just enough to hit his target. Thus my reasoning by dumping exhaust gas should yield an increase in horsepower. Granted, as you said, the amount being dumped through the WG is small, but it should make a difference, right?

"Freeing up HP" is the same concept of a lightweight flywheel.

When you install a lightweight flywheel, and you dyno a couple extra HP from it, did your engine actually just generate more HP than before? No. You simply removed a restriction that was previously absorbing that power/energy.

Removing the exhaust system is the same concept. If your getting more power out of the car with no exhaust, that's only because your exhaust was previously restrictive. Removing that restriction will simply keep it from robbing the power that you were already creating.

The same applies for wastegates. Unless you have a nasty restriction involved with recirculating, you aren't really making any difference by recirculating as apposed to dumping. And if you're working with a system that is much less restrictive to dump, the difference will be minimal. Your wastegate usually re-routes less than 20% of the total exhaust output. So if you can drop your cat-back and pick up 10 more HP, dumping your wastegate would probably only net you 1-2 HP, and that amount isn't even accurately measurable on a chassis dyno or a butt dyno.

In a sense, we're both right. If you're working with a restrictive exhaust, then dumping a wastegate can potentially free up a bit of power, but it's almost not even enough to mention.

 

[fwdmaster]

"Freeing up HP" is the same concept of a lightweight flywheel.

When you install a lightweight flywheel, and you dyno a couple extra HP from it, did your engine actually just generate more HP than before? No. You simply removed a restriction that was previously absorbing that power/energy.

Removing the exhaust system is the same concept. If your getting more power out of the car with no exhaust, that's only because your exhaust was previously restrictive. Removing that restriction will simply keep it from robbing the power that you were already creating.

The same applies for wastegates. Unless you have a nasty restriction involved with recirculating, you aren't really making any difference by recirculating as apposed to dumping. And if you're working with a system that is much less restrictive to dump, the difference will be minimal. Your wastegate usually re-routes less than 20% of the total exhaust output. So if you can drop your cat-back and pick up 10 more HP, dumping your wastegate would probably only net you 1-2 HP, and that amount isn't even accurately measurable on a chassis dyno or a butt dyno.

In a sense, we're both right. If you're working with a restrictive exhaust, then dumping a wastegate can potentially free up a bit of power, but it's almost not even enough to mention.

Agree with your theory

 

[Black_Bullet]

I think its worth it, especially if you were dealing with bad boost spikes and boost drop off like I was with the internal gate... And you dont have to worry about upgrading it later when you want to run a larger turbo...

I have 38mm externally gated e316g setup, punishment recir o2 housing and I purposely put a stiff spring combo in it ( The small spring, and large spring it comes with put together ) and my minimum boost I can run now is 20psi even with the boost controller turn all the way down...
But the difference this makes up top is measureable, because the turbo holds boost a good 2-3 psi LONGER thru the whole curve...

Example, pre external gate setting boost to 25psi for 2nd and 3rd gear, on colder nights the upper gears ( 4th,5th) would sometimes spike to 26-27lbs, which made pump gas tuning harder, and more inconsistent and plus only netted about 20psi at redline, and at best, about 21lbs redline which is still not good enough despite me having 272cams and decent mods.
Now with my external gate setup, setting it at 25psi it doesnt exceed 25psi no matter the gear or outside temp, and boost at redline ( 7k) has only fallin down to 23-22psi... Significant difference for someone trying to extract everything out of their setup, especially if the setup has a small turbo.
So the external gate free's up more power in that sense and I think its worth it from my experience...
Thats my opinion.

 

[asd_gst]

he would have to put the catback back on for it to be legal though....


asd_gst, you get that housing yet?

yea haha and the peanut butter m&ms

 

[mach4g63t]

That makes sense, and I understand what you mean now. See, a little explanation was all I wanted! Much appreciated!

So, my stock housing Punishment dump will get me 2hp for "freed power"!

Anyway, that's all I wanted. Just a little better understanding passed down from the wise to the ... unwise.

 

[asd_gst]

I think its worth it, especially if you were dealing with bad boost spikes and boost drop off like I was with the internal gate... And you dont have to worry about upgrading it later when you want to run a larger turbo...

I have 38mm externally gated e316g setup, punishment recir o2 housing and I purposely put a stiff spring combo in it ( The small spring, and large spring it comes with put together ) and my minimum boost I can run now is 20psi even with the boost controller turn all the way down...
But the difference this makes up top is measureable, because the turbo holds boost a good 2-3 psi LONGER thru the whole curve...

Example, pre external gate setting boost to 25psi for 2nd and 3rd gear, on colder nights the upper gears ( 4th,5th) would sometimes spike to 26-27lbs, which made pump gas tuning harder, and more inconsistent and plus only netted about 20psi at redline, and at best, about 21lbs redline which is still not good enough despite me having 272cams and decent mods.
Now with my external gate setup, setting it at 25psi it doesnt exceed 25psi no matter the gear or outside temp, and boost at redline ( 7k) has only fallin down to 23-22psi... Significant difference for someone trying to extract everything out of their setup, especially if the setup has a small turbo.
So the external gate free's up more power in that sense and I think its worth it from my experience...
Thats my opinion.

yea i agree with this, thus why i want external i plan on getting a larger turbo down the road, i had bad boost drop off and spiking which i thought was weird one day i would hit 13psi and drop to around 11psi other days i would be around 13 psi and spike to 15psi. so i belive the external will get arid of that problem, plus with a restrictive exhaust it will free up power, i have stock exhaust on the car so im sure i will free up power dumping the wastegate