Megan Racing Coilover Damper Kit(Street Series) or koni and h&r

[asd_gst]

ok so ive looked at both from more then one site they are about the same price give or take a few $. i was wondering what would be best (drive ability, handling) should i get koni yellows with H&R springs which drop the car about 1.5" or the Megan Racing Coilover (street Series) which has like 35 differnt settings (not sure if its 35 but around there give or take a few) but i was just wondering what would be best? my car is mainly going to be a street car, want it to be able to handle turns really good. maybe take it to drag strip a few times.

 

[Freerevving]

I avoid H&R springs with most cars, They're usually too soft. Even though they lower the car, they're Race Springs are like Sports, and they're Sports are like OEM

Eibach makes better springs

Koni's are the best quality sport ride, at a (still) affordable price... If you really want an awesome combo get Ground Controls (uses Eibach) and Koni Yellows, or GC & Bilstein.

I've heard the Megan Coilovers are great, but there's no telling if/when you'll have to try to get them to honor the warranty... which is a major pain in the ass with most companies, and sometimes impossible

If $850 is your limit, then go with either Koni/Eibach or the Megans (I've never personally tried the Megans, but others are impressed with them)... The Koni combo won't have ride height or caster adjustment but will definitely last a long long time. The only other shock that compares to Koni Yellows is Bilstein HD or Bilstein Sport, The bilsteins seem to never ever ever blow out (even after 12 years) but have no damping adjustment, which can make the Sports a little uncomfortable on bumpy roads. Even so, they're damping is self-adjusting and is great for grip and cornering.

There are dampers that are only slightly better than Koni or Bilstein, but they're way too expensive IMO

 

[asd_gst]

ive heard that eibach springs have same spring rate as oem spring, not good want stiffer springs with lower ride, there was a thread on here about it. at least the 2g have the same spring rate as oem 2g

 

[Freerevving]

ive heard that eibach springs have same spring rate as oem spring, not good want stiffer springs with lower ride, there was a thread on here about it. at least the 2g have the same spring rate as oem 2g

Really? I know Eibach has an OEM+ line, but the prokits shouldn't have the same rate.

I personally wouldn't use anything less than Sportlines, Prokits are actually 15% stiffer (IIRC) but with the drop they seem about the same... that's why it's important to get them substantially stiffer... H&R sports are less than 10% stiffer and seem softer than stock... I like the spring rates that the reg Megan springs offer... but I'm willing to bet that they'll sag within a year or two

If you are intent on H&R make sure you get the Race, they don't drop as low as they claim.... but I recommend the Eibachs.... I don't like "progressive rate" springs period... I think they're full of shit. On sports cars, they completely compress their tight coils and only use a small section of wide coils.... Linear rate springs use the whole spring... You'll find that Ground Controls use linear rate springs
Ground Control Suspension Systems

 

[asian312]

I avoid H&R springs with most cars, They're usually too soft. Even though they lower the car, they're Race Springs are like Sports, and they're Sports are like OEM

Eibach makes better springs

Koni's are the best quality sport ride, at a (still) affordable price... If you really want an awesome combo get Ground Controls (uses Eibach) and Koni Yellows, or GC & Bilstein.

I've heard the Megan Coilovers are great, but there's no telling if/when you'll have to try to get them to honor the warranty... which is a major pain in the ass with most companies, and sometimes impossible

If $850 is your limit, then go with either Koni/Eibach or the Megans (I've never personally tried the Megans, but others are impressed with them)... The Koni combo won't have ride height or caster adjustment but will definitely last a long long time. The only other shock that compares to Koni Yellows is Bilstein HD or Bilstein Sport, The bilsteins seem to never ever ever blow out (even after 12 years) but have no damping adjustment, which can make the Sports a little uncomfortable on bumpy roads. Even so, they're damping is self-adjusting and is great for grip and cornering.

There are dampers that are only slightly better than Koni or Bilstein, but they're way too expensive IMO

Really? I know Eibach has an OEM+ line, but the prokits shouldn't have the same rate.

I personally wouldn't use anything less than Sportlines, Prokits are actually 15% stiffer (IIRC) but with the drop they seem about the same... that's why it's important to get them substantially stiffer... H&R sports are less than 10% stiffer and seem softer than stock... I like the spring rates that the reg Megan springs offer... but I'm willing to bet that they'll sag within a year or two

If you are intent on H&R make sure you get the Race, they don't drop as low as they claim.... but I recommend the Eibachs.... I don't like "progressive rate" springs period... I think they're full of shit. On sports cars, they completely compress their tight coils and only use a small section of wide coils.... Linear rate springs use the whole spring... You'll find that Ground Controls use linear rate springs
Ground Control Suspension Systems

Where did you get this information? I'm pretty sure that Eibach springs are softer than the H&R springs on a 2G application by quite a bit. The H&R OE and Sport springs have the same spring rate, just different heights.

I normally recommend the Eibach/Illumina combo to those that are street only and H&R/Koni to those looking for street/track day type setups.

 

[Freerevving]

Where did you get this information? I'm pretty sure that Eibach springs are softer than the H&R springs on a 2G application by quite a bit. The H&R OE and Sport springs have the same spring rate, just different heights.

I normally recommend the Eibach/Illumina combo to those that are street only and H&R/Koni to those looking for street/track day type setups.

It's from my own experience, mostly. I used to have the specs on H&R and they're pretty disappointing... some cars have better spring rates than others, but in general they're soft. Springs differ from car to car... H&R Race springs are great but are hardly "Race". I've used H&R Sports once, and have ridden in other cars using them, we experienced problems because they were too soft for the damper valving... A few of my friends had H&R race with the same shocks and were satisfied.... rode much better.

I admit I've only been in a couple cars that had Pro-kits, maybe the shocks were better?... but the Eibach Sportlines topped the H&R Race, noticeably... and the Races tend to sag. Suspension Techniques were great, but sagged very early.

I don't think I'd ever waste my time with Pro-kits or H&R Sports since the valving in Koni Yellows and Bilstein Sports are made for 300-450 lbs minimum... while those springs are between 150-250 lbs F (depending on the car).

Koni's seem to compensate for almost any spring... Illuminas aren't bad, but they do blow out. Tokico HP's are a waste of time they blow out pretty quickly. Boge/Sachs are great but don't work well with more than 1" drop. Bilsteins are great but won't compensate for spring rate... Koni's are my favorite, and Bilstein Short HD's come in close second, then Bil Sports.

I've used quite a lot of different suspension components in the past.. these are just my preferences All in all, I've probably spent close to 10k on various suspension components between cars

 

[asd_gst]

why do you say the megans will sag within a year? do you know this 1st hand?

 

[asian312]

I've used quite a lot of different suspension components in the past.. these are just my preferences All in all, I've probably spent close to 10k on various suspension components between cars

You said it, mind listing those suspension setups and your driving experience? I'm not here to pick a fight, but the opinions you are stating are against the norm and this information would be super useful to the 1G guys. I see you're in Houston, where abouts?

As for my experience with the H&R and Konis, I can only say I will go back to those in a heartbeat if I ever get tired of tracking my car on Mullerized JICs. Everyone has their opinion, but I loved the combination street manners and track performance. Never had sagging issues here.

A buddy of mine from Cali has had his Megans on his 2G for 4 years and despite a blown shock that recently happened, he had nothing but good things to say about them. I looked at those heavily when looking for a track specific setup and maybe we'll get a chance to do some comparisons while he's here in Texas.

 

[RipperXX]

Agree with above.

Duno why 2G's are coming up so much in this thread. The OP has 1g and is asking about 1g stuff. Anyway I have a question / comment here. Does anyone know exactly for a fact what the 1g Eibach pro kits spring rates are for the normal run of the mill kit? I know you can custom order them in other spring rates but I am curious what the plain kit is. Cause that what I got and would like to know what the front and rear spring rates are.

 

[Freerevving]

why do you say the megans will sag within a year? do you know this 1st hand?

I have no idea if they will.... It's just that most stiff/cheap springs do... like Suspension Techniques.

Most of my experience is from non-DSM cars

You said it, mind listing those suspension setups and your driving experience? I'm not here to pick a fight, but the opinions you are stating are against the norm and this information would be super useful to the 1G guys. I see you're in Houston, where abouts?

As for my experience with the H&R and Konis, I can only say I will go back to those in a heartbeat if I ever get tired of tracking my car on Mullerized JICs. Everyone has their opinion, but I loved the combination street manners and track performance. Never had sagging issues here.

Were you using H&R race? Did you ever try Koni's with the Pro-kits? they're almost the same as H&R Sports.... H&R Race* tended to sag somewhat evenly and nothing too drastic. It also took some years (1.5-4) but they would sag over an inch given enough time... don't know if you want to call that sagging or settling, but it got bad over time and messed up suspension geometry... Sportlines In the cars I've tested seemed to have slightly stiffer rates than the H&R Race and didn't sag more than 1" (very evenly) over time... I admit none of them were DSM

H&R doesn't like to disclose information about their spring rates, but I once had the info (which was dissapointing for their sport springs) and I could try to look for it if you wish. IIRC the front OEM rate was 130 on one car (mind you this car was 2400 lbs stock)... the H&R sports provided 155F, and the Races were 175 lbs F.... still these were shorter springs, with less usable spring and the rate would have to be 175 or more to make any real difference. 200 and up seemed to work well for us. (GC's with 400lbs F were still comfortable on bumpy roads, but that's a small diameter spring).

Sorry If I made gross generalizations with these springs, it's unfair since I have very little experience tuning DSM suspensions... but I have a lot of experience with other suspension. Most of it was spent on different (watercooled) VW's... but there were also Old 3-series BMW's, Nissans, pontiacs, Ford Ttrucks, etc. You still want a list of those?

Honestly, the only thing I might be qualified to give dsm suspension advice on would be shock/struts since those don't differ much between small cars(?)

Also I'm in Dickinson which is on your way to Galveston... Where you at?

A buddy of mine from Cali has had his Megans on his 2G for 4 years and despite a blown shock that recently happened, he had nothing but good things to say about them. I looked at those heavily when looking for a track specific setup and maybe we'll get a chance to do some comparisons while he's here in Texas.

I was talking about the Megan Springs that cost $100 and have 350 lbs rates....I don't feel $100 covers the cost in processing a spring that doesn't sag...

I am seriously looking at the Megan coilovers as well, considering they cost $850, and use 2.5/2.25 ID springs... the cost can easily cover high quality parts. Is that blown shock covered under warranty? Still, 4 years ain't bad, that's about how long Illuminas last.
But that's more good info on them, makes me want them more

Funny part, is I will be using the $100 Megan springs untill I know more about Coilovers on this car... Maybe you can help out with understanding the coilover cost/quality/features

I really ought to keep my mouth shut about TEL suspensions, since I have much to learn about them... I'm the one who needs the advice. I guess I was just giving my experience with the brand names....sorry

btw, you're in Houston... I just ordered one too many mkIV Supra SMIC, you know anyone who wants one before I put it on Craigslist? I also have 3 extra 1g DSM shells, 2 are GSX's, one is more complete than the other... if you need parts or want a solid 90 GSX shell.

 

[talon20g]

I avoid H&R springs with most cars, They're usually too soft. Even though they lower the car, they're Race Springs are like Sports, and they're Sports are like OEM

Eibach makes better springs

Koni's are the best quality sport ride, at a (still) affordable price... If you really want an awesome combo get Ground Controls (uses Eibach) and Koni Yellows, or GC & Bilstein.

I've heard the Megan Coilovers are great, but there's no telling if/when you'll have to try to get them to honor the warranty... which is a major pain in the ass with most companies, and sometimes impossible

If $850 is your limit, then go with either Koni/Eibach or the Megans (I've never personally tried the Megans, but others are impressed with them)... The Koni combo won't have ride height or caster adjustment but will definitely last a long long time. The only other shock that compares to Koni Yellows is Bilstein HD or Bilstein Sport, The bilsteins seem to never ever ever blow out (even after 12 years) but have no damping adjustment, which can make the Sports a little uncomfortable on bumpy roads. Even so, they're damping is self-adjusting and is great for grip and cornering.

There are dampers that are only slightly better than Koni or Bilstein, but they're way too expensive IMO

Since when are they making shocks with caster adjustment. And if they are I'd love to know how a shock can make caster adjustable.

As far as shocks are concerned, koni's are an awesome shock.

 

[Freerevving]

As far as shocks are concerned, koni's are an awesome shock.

yes they are... and my favorite too

Since when are they making shocks with caster adjustment. And if they are I'd love to know how a shock can make caster adjustable.

Look at the pictures

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see the adjustable top on the front coilover?

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Ground Control Suspension Systems

When you change the angle of the strut/coilover, the whole bearing carrier changes angle... and adjusts caster and camber

 

[talon20g]

I miss read your post. I thought you were refering to the koni shocks or shocks in general as having an actual caster adjustments not camber/caster plates that can be purchased seperate or come with most coilover setups. Sorry. Should have read the post better.

 

[asd_gst]

I have no idea if they will.... It's just that most stiff/cheap springs do... like Suspension Techniques.

Most of my experience is from non-DSM cars
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why do you say they're cheap? from what i heard they're really good

 

[Freerevving]

Excuse me, "Inexpensive"

I love the way Suspension Techniques ride... but they sag pretty quickly

Neither Suspension Techniques nor Megan use the same costly, lengthy process that H&R and Eibach uses to bend, cut and heat-treat the springs... not sure about their coilovers

What do you mean by good? That after two years they haven't sagged? Which one are you refering to?

 

[RipperXX]

Anyone know the spring rates for the normal (not custom) Eibach Prokit springs?

 

[asd_gst]

i was just told by people that megan coil overs are good, ill have to go back through old messages to figure out exactly what ones they had but in the pics the car didnt sag at all

 

[LaserAWD]

I have had KYB AGX shocks with eibach springs on GC coilovers and now have Koni shocks with H&R springs with GC coil overs and I have to say the Koni / H&R combo is far superior in ride comfort and performance. I don't know about the H&R drop in springs but the 2.5" coil over springs they make have been tested better than the Eibachs to be a more linear spring and closer to the actual advertised spring rate.

I would personally stay away from Eibach springs and stick with H&R springs.

I can't remember where I heard it from but it's a good saying 'One company knows how to make springs, the other knows how to advertise'

 

[Freerevving]

Well H&R does a lot of advertising so which one is it? I'm not that impressed with H&R quality... it's well above average, but the average sucks right now

Both springs companies use a lengthy and expensive process to make their springs.... Eibach doesn't charge more because they advertise more... their process actually costs more and from my experience their stiffer springs sag less often than H&R Race.
H&R does quite a bit of advertising but it's mostly aimed at European cars. They also don't honor warranty and are almost impossible to get on the phone.

i was just told by people that megan coil overs are good, ill have to go back through old messages to figure out exactly what ones they had but in the pics the car didnt sag at all

Please read more carefully... I was speaking specifically of their $100 spring set.... not the coilovers
I doubt the inexpensive springs are resistant to sagging


And I've been reading up on the Eibach/H&R comparison...

so far I can't find actual spring rates... But you were right, the H&R Sports have slightly more weight than the Pro-kits, although from what I read it's a very slight difference... The only time I've ridden on Pro-kits were with Koni's so I wouldn't know... I've ridden on a few sets of (other's and my own) H&R sports and they were always too soft. But you know damper selection is everything... a particularly bad combination IMHO is Biltstein Sports with Eibach Pro-kits or H&R sports... not very comforatble at speeds below 80mph, and that particular shock can't adjust to the soft spring rate, so cornering suffers

I do know that the Eibach Sportlines are usually a little stiffer than the H&R Race... at least they definitely were in my experience.

I definitely like H&R races, but what happened with me is they started 1.7" drop and ended up 2.25-2.5" in the front and slightly uneven... the Sportlines claimed "1.8" but started 1.6" and ended up 1.9" and settled very evenly. This was not on a dsm

 

[asian312]

Hey Freerevving, claming up won't do this community any good. Experience with different brands do account for a lot and I for one am glad you spoke up. Internet = misinterpretation. Like you I'm more familiar with another setup than the OP, but I've helped setup and been around a few track specific 1Gs.

My buddy's black 1G moved from Eibach/KYB to GC/Koni recently. One thing to note was how much the sway bar affected the Eibachs. Or in his case an add on sway bar. The amount of preload he was able to generate made night and day difference. Without it they were incredibly soft, but very pleasant to drive on out side the track.

One thing that can somewhat account for sagging are the rubber in the upper mounts and bushings in the suspension. With stiffer springs those pads can get obliterated accounting for almost a quarter to half and inch. Also torquing bushings at full droop can cause premature wear and affect suspension geometry.

Just for comparison sakes, here are the numbers I collected 2 years ago. I'm pretty sure I grabbed the H&R spring rates from their site way back when and have seen similar confirmations from this site. Take these with a grain of salt:

H&R Race Springs:
Front - 430
Rear - 260

Eibach ProKits:
Front: 330
Rear: 160

Suspension Techniques:
Front: 200
Rear: 160

Stock (Non Turbo/Auto Tranny/Manual Tranny):
OEM Stock 1G FWD
Front: 134
Rear: 128.8

OEM Stock 1G AWD
Front: 146
Rear: 140

95-96 OEM Stock 2G AWD
Front: 265
Rear: 162 (+/- 8 )

97-99 OEM Stock 2G AWD
Front: 246
Rear: 151

95-96 OEM Stock 2G FWD
Front: 246
Rear: 173

97-99 OEM Stock 2G FWD
Front: 246
Rear: 151

PS: I'm close to Westheimer and Beltway 8

 

[Freerevving]

Hey Freerevving, claming up won't do this community any good. Experience with different brands do account for a lot and I for one am glad you spoke up. Internet = misinterpretation. Like you I'm more familiar with another setup than the OP, but I've helped setup and been around a few track specific 1Gs.

My buddy's black 1G moved from Eibach/KYB to GC/Koni recently. One thing to note was how much the sway bar affected the Eibachs. Or in his case an add on sway bar. The amount of preload he was able to generate made night and day difference. Without it they were incredibly soft, but very pleasant to drive on out side the track.


H&R Race Springs:
Front - 430
Rear - 260

Eibach ProKits:
Front: 330
Rear: 160

Suspension Techniques:
Front: 200
Rear: 160


PS: I'm close to Westheimer and Beltway 8

Good info!!

you already know, but I'd like to point out that GC uses Eibach springs. From everything I've done, Pro-kit/Sport rates aren't worth messing with... Race is truly going to something high like GC's... but Wow those H&R Race actually look pretty good from the numbers

... so that's 1G... do you happen to know the Eibach Sportline spring rates? I'm guessing the GC Eibachs are between 500 and 600lbs

Also I noticed someone commenting on switching from Eibach 2.5 to H&R 2.5... probably the difference was seen in the spring rate... but whatever

Internet = misinterpretation. 8

no kidding... I'm seeing that....

and Thanks


btw... I'm out on the Westside often... well, not recently.... but I'd love to come and visit after i get the eclipse back together... It'll almost definitely be on basic Megan Springs and pulled fenders

If you've got any other spring rate/suspension info please email me

[email protected]

 

[asian312]

I'm not sure on the Eibachs progressive springs, but the H&R spring rates supposedly hold across all their lines of springs. I doubt any of the spring rates go higher than what's listed. As you said their 'race' spring is more for show than anything else.

 

[Freerevving]

I meant 2.5" ID springs (coilover springs)

H&R spring rates are different for each class (OE, sport, race) and each application... I'm trying to figure out what you meant by "H&R spring rates supposedly hold across all their lines of springs"

My experience with H&R was that I liked their Race springs, but not their Sports.... I felt the Sports were for show... the only problem with the Races were that they eventually lowered tihe car too much to actually use for racing, and the settling was slightly uneven in the front. Of course, all of this could be false with the 1g DSM

 

[asd_gst]

doesnt anyone know where to get the Megan Racing Coilover Damper Kit(Street Series) for a 1g fwd i cant remember where i found them but i cant find them now

 

[Hideki]

Alright, I started off really questioning the quality of Megan coilovers. But RRE suggested I go with the Megan coilovers over Teins! I love 'em, while I can't comment on the quality of some of Megan stuff, the coilovers have proven themselves to me. The ride is stiff make no mistake about it, but they get the job done quite well. Much better than an ordinary strut/spring combo I'd say (and the price is almost the same too)