50Hz slider problems

[1992awdlaser]

That was done at the beginning of last year. I posted a log in the link forums and someone advised that I bump the sliders up to where they are. I'll go through and check the couplers when I get her out the next time. Thanks for all your help Pat!!!!

If you can't find anything obvious just up the 1600hz slider around 5%. Or you could leave it where it is. All it's going to do is slightly change the air/fuel ratio if you up it. That is already being compensated for with your fuel sliders though. So, if you change it you might need to change a couple of the fuel sliders slightly to get the air/fuel back where you want.

Glad to help.

 

[daren_p]

Nathan, is there any reason why you haven't swapped in some ARP's yet? If its because you didn't want to remove the head, when I did mine I didn't want to either, so I just replaced them one at a time & torqued them to spec in the factory sequence. I haven't had any issues running up to 30 psi & thats with the factory HG.

Your getting to the point where you'll be testing the limits of those factory head bolts. Remember the 7 bolt studs won't take quite the abuse as the factory 6 bolts. I know guys who have done it, just make sure you have a descent tune while doing so, as knocking will greatly increase the chances of stretching a bolt &/or damaging the stock gasket. What do you normally have your CEL set at to flash knock? When running meth I set mine at 2 deg as my car never see's that much knock under normal conditions, so I want to make sure I have lots of time to let off, just in case. I would recommend for you to do the same.

For timing, you usually want to start bumping it up in the higher rpms first as this is normally where power starts to drop off & is an area where it is less likly to knock. The areas where you see peak torque/peak cylinder pressure are also the areas where its most likely to knock with additional timing, so somewhere around the 4500-5500 range. I usually start by add 1 deg from 6500 up & then try adding 1 deg at each lower rpm increment until I see knock. If no knock, leave that timing in & start adding another deg from 6500 up & continue this pattern. You also want to have a nice progressive timing curve without flat spot or huge jumps (as these jumps are more likely to knock). On the timing screen you can turn on the 2g estimates so you can adjust the sliders to try & get that nice linear curve (ie the sliders might not necessarly be nice & smooth to give you a nice smooth timing curve).

On a side note, have you checked or swapped your O2 sensor? You said above that changing your global changed your air/fuel ratio on your WB? This shouldn't have happened as the car should be in closed loop under these conditions & the feedback from the O2 should be keeping the air/fuel ratio constant. The adjustments to the global should just have an effect on your actual trims? I'm by no means an expert on trouble shooting with logs (though think I've got the tuning down pretty well) but this is the first thing that popped into my head with what you mentioned above.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Nathan, is there any reason why you haven't swapped in some ARP's yet? If its because you didn't want to remove the head, when I did mine I didn't want to either, so I just replaced them one at a time & torqued them to spec in the factory sequence. I haven't had any issues running up to 30 psi & thats with the factory HG.

Honestly, it's because I'm a wus. I have this thing in my head that tells me I can't touch anything inside the motor. Timing belt, head studs, gasket, etc. Everything else on the car I've done. Turbo upgrade, porting exhaust manifold, O2 sensor housing, alternator, starter, fuel system, etc. I'm pretty handy with a wrench, but when it comes to something that may compromise the motor, my brain tells me that I can't. I know I could, but like I said, I'm a wus.

Maybe I should grow some balls and dive in. The timing belt just scares the crap out of me.

Your getting to the point where you'll be testing the limits of those factory head bolts. Remember the 7 bolt studs won't take quite the abuse as the factory 6 bolts. I know guys who have done it, just make sure you have a descent tune while doing so, as knocking will greatly increase the chances of stretching a bolt &/or damaging the stock gasket. What do you normally have your CEL set at to flash knock? When running meth I set mine at 2 deg as my car never see's that much knock under normal conditions, so I want to make sure I have lots of time to let off, just in case. I would recommend for you to do the same.

You are right. If I lift the head, I'll be in for more work / money than I would be if I just asked my wife for my balls back and did the head studs.

The CEL is set to flash for anything over 1 degree. I also have the boost gauge set to display knock and I have a clogged nozzle detector for the Meth.

For timing, you usually want to start bumping it up in the higher rpms first as this is normally where power starts to drop off & is an area where it is less likly to knock. The areas where you see peak torque/peak cylinder pressure are also the areas where its most likely to knock with additional timing, so somewhere around the 4500-5500 range. I usually start by add 1 deg from 6500 up & then try adding 1 deg at each lower rpm increment until I see knock. If no knock, leave that timing in & start adding another deg from 6500 up & continue this pattern. You also want to have a nice progressive timing curve without flat spot or huge jumps (as these jumps are more likely to knock). On the timing screen you can turn on the 2g estimates so you can adjust the sliders to try & get that nice linear curve (ie the sliders might not necessarly be nice & smooth to give you a nice smooth timing curve).

Sounds like a plan.

On a side note, have you checked or swapped your O2 sensor? You said above that changing your global changed your air/fuel ratio on your WB? This shouldn't have happened as the car should be in closed loop under these conditions & the feedback from the O2 should be keeping the air/fuel ratio constant. The adjustments to the global should just have an effect on your actual trims? I'm by no means an expert on trouble shooting with logs (though think I've got the tuning down pretty well) but this is the first thing that popped into my head with what you mentioned above.

That was my thinking which is why I've been so confused. The O2 sensor is about 2 years old and has about 1000 miles on it. I rarely drive the car, it's pretty much the weekend warrior.

Thanks Daren.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Well Daren, you are officially a bad influence. Keep in mind that I'm calling you during the install if I run into any problems.

I think that's everything I need. It's hard to read, but I ordered 7-bolt head studs, OEM Valve cover gasket, OEM spark plug ring gaskets and the OEM half moon gasket. Do the APR's come with the Moly lube, or was I supposed to buy that seperate?

 

[1992awdlaser]

The headstuds will come with the moly-lube.

That's pretty ridiculous for the gaskets. You can get all those gaskets from Advance or Autozone for $2x. Valve cover gasket kit: While we find your parts, please enter your ZIP Code at PartsAmerica.com

 

[spyderturbo007]

I wanted to go OEM just to be safe.

 

[daren_p]

Good call Nathan, that should cover it Like Pat said the Moly Lube SHOULD be included. I say should because when I got my ARP's the first set had the thread missing on one of the nuts, then when I received a replacement set (I kept the first until I knew the second was good), I don't remember exactly but I think it was, something else was missing. So had to make 1 set out of 2.

Don't feel bad about the OEM gaskets, I'm sure I paid alot more then you from the local dealer (JNZ usually has pretty good prices on OEM & seems to have good customer service, unlike some of the other online OEM dealers, extremepsi is also another good place)

Headstuds really aren't that hard at all, don't be a wuss Until I had the Eclipse I had never gone "into" a motor before either. Headstuds, cams, valve spings, lifters, valve stem seals, timing belt, etc., all not hard to do at all. Were luckey that there's a tonn of info out there for our cars & even more guys that have already done it to theirs

So look up the factory torque sequence, pull the first bolt, chase it with a tap if you have one (I didn't at the time) & blow it out good with compressed air. Then install one new stud & what I did was bottom it out several times (with abit of force) & then back it off to make sure the stud was going all the way down. Then once again bottom out the stud & back it off 1/4 turn to make sure you don't have any torque applied to the stud itself. Then install your washer & nut & torque it to spec in steps as you normally would (of course using the Molylube). Then go on to the next stud in the factory sequence. IIRC the ARP spec is 75 ft/lbs with Moly for the 7 bolt but I did mine to 90 ft/lbs. Some say follow exactly what the factory recommends while other say to give it abit more. All I can say is that so far min have been great (2 or 3 summers now)

For the O2 sensor, is your replacement an OEM Mitsu? Have heard the "aftermarket" ones can sometimes not last to long in our applications.

 

[spyderturbo007]

I was reading around and saw that you should apply a thin layer of RTV to only the valve cover side of the gasket along with the top of the half moon gasket. What I didn't see was anything about putting RTV on the spark plug well gaskets. Is that necessary?

I saw a couple of your posts about the head stud installation and was going to go that route. One stud at a time and put the washer in place before threading in the stud so I don't have to worry about clearance issues. Are you supposed to be liberal with the Moly lube, or just a thin coat? I have the torque sequence written down that I found here, since it looks like the one in the Haynes is incorrect. I'll be using this one:

7 5 2 4 10
9 3 1 6 8

It looks like I'll also need to pick up an 11mm 12 point socket and the stock bolts are standard 6 point. So basically it's just a matter of pulling the valve cover, cracking loose bolt #1. Removing the bolt, setting the washer in place, lubing the threads and threading in the stud a couple of times. Then back it off about a quarter turn? Install the nut, and tighten using the APR installation instructions step method? Repeat with #2, and so on.

Sounds pretty straight forward to me and from all my reading, it doesn't see as though anyone runs into any problems. Other than having to work to get the stud out sometimes.

As for the O2 sensor, it's straight from the dealer. Unless I'm upgrading something like the exhaust or injectors, I go with OEM.

 

[daren_p]

Yes, looks like you've basically got it all covered. I don't have the factory torque sequence infront of me, but that looks correct. As for the RTV, you shouldn't need to use it on either the spark plug gaskets or the large main gasket. The only spot for the RTV is around the half moon & then in the corners of the cam caps. The rest should seal properly with the use of RTV.