E85 for all in Portland, just FYI

[Ravenous]

According to wikipedia, it is mandated that all gas stations will have to have a pump dispensing e85.

"Starting in 2013[4], at least one US state (Minnesota) already has legislatively mandated and planned to force E20 (20% ethanol) into their general gasoline fuel-distribution network. The city of Portland, Oregon will require E85 and biodiesel at all gas pumps instead of their petroleum equivalents by 2009. Details of how this will work for individual vehicle owners while maintaining automobile manufacturer warranties, despite exceeding the manufacturer's maximum warranted operation percentage of 10% of ethanol in fuel, are still being worked as of late-2005. However, the choice of transitioning to a 20% ethanol blend of gasoline is not without precedent; Brazil, in its conversion to an ethanol-fueled economy, determined that operation with up to 22% ethanol in gasoline was safe for the cars and trucks on the road in Brazil at the time, and the conversion to a 20% blend was accomplished with only minor issues arising for older vehicles. Recently, conversion to a 24% blend was accomplished in Brazil."

This was pulled from: E85 in standard engines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just wanted to let all my brethren know that this fuel will be much more readily available to us in the near future. The last time I filled up on e85 it was $3.15 a gallon and premium was $4.59.

 

[dirtybombastic]

So you've run e85 in your gsx? Did it have any noticable effects in your cars performance? I read the link that you attached and was suprised that it reported that forced induction motors ran well on the stuff. And if thats truly the case, I just have one question; Where the hell do they sell this stuff in the portland/southwest WA area? I am getting tired of feeling violated every time I fill my tank.

 

[Ravenous]

I do run it in my car. Technically we are still getting raped no matter what but now the price difference makes it worthwhile since you have to run approx. 20-25% more fuel. I did see a substantial increase in performance. I am currently running 19 psi on my 14b with 93 I would get 15 counts of knock under full boost. With no change to the tune except global fuel adj. for the increase in fuel I now get no knock through redline. I even leaned it out a little with no knock at all. I get my e85 at bob's auto and gas on se 82nd in Portland by krispy kreme.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

MMMMMmmmm... Donuts!!

 

[MY1GDSM]

So you've run e85 in your gsx? Did it have any noticable effects in your cars performance? I read the link that you attached and was suprised that it reported that forced induction motors ran well on the stuff. And if thats truly the case, I just have one question; Where the hell do they sell this stuff in the portland/southwest WA area? I am getting tired of feeling violated every time I fill my tank.

There is a Usethanol Station In Longview - $3.31 a gallon, the Address is 816 Oregon Way longview, Wa - Google Maps
there is also one in Chehalis, WA at the Airport Depot Texaco - 1400 NW Louisiana Ave, Chehalis, Lewis, Washington 98532, United States - Google Maps
From What I hear Wilcox & Flegel Oil Co. & Usethanol Will be opening something like 12 stations along I-5 Between Seattle and Portland

 

[R Squared]

If someone finds E85 on the west side please notify me. I know there is one out in Cornelius but I'd really like to find a supplier in the Hillsboro area.

 

[dirtybombastic]

Thanks ravenous, I know exactly where that is. I'm gonna roll over there this week and give it a go.

 

[baugh92talon]

there are guys out there making over 500whp on e-85,,, just more fuel. so only if it was cheaper!!!!

 

[Ravenous]

Just remember that like any upgrade you need the correct mods to make it work. It is all to easy to run lean on e85.

 

[ouch1011]

And E85 can potentially destroy every piece of rubber in your fuel system. E85/Ethanol requires different types of rubber hoses and o-rings, so running E85 in a car not designed for it is potentially very, very dangerous.

It should also be noted that if you want to run E85 and have updated all the rubber hoses and o-rings accordingly, you must re-tune to use it. IIRC stoich for E85 is around 12:1 air/fuel ratio, compared to 14.7:1 for gasoline, so you need a LOT more fuel in order to keep from leaning out. You can also expect a considerable drop in fuel economy. Typically around 20-25%

Personally I think E85 is a stupid idea, and I think it is unfortunate that it is starting to catch on, rather than some other truely alternative fuel source.

 

[Ravenous]

There are many people running e85 on these forums and nobody has had a failure due to failed fuel lines or seals caused by the corrosive nature of e85. All cars in the last two decades have fuel systems that are designed to handle at least 10% ethanol. This isn't methanol that we're talking about, now that is heavily corrosive.

E85 does require about 25% more fuel but for me it is also 25% less price wise. So 105 octane, excellent knock resistance, and cleaner burning, that seems like a win all around to me. Will it replace gasoline? Never, but right now it is one of our only options.

 

[Ravenous]

I recommend that anybody who is planning on running e85 do a search on the forums so you can see the real world cons and benefits and make an informed decision for yourself.

 

[ETS Tom]

Thanks for the info! Hopefully this comes to pass I too am a Bob's Automotive regular, maybe I'll bump into you Ravenous, I have yet to see anyone there with a performance car filling up on E85.

Tom

 

[MY1GDSM]

So this is the best I could come up with for Stations in WA & OR If anyone knows of a station that I did'nt list post it up......

Longview US Ethanol 416 Oregon Way Longview, WA 98632
Phone:360-423-2486

Airport Depot 1400 NW Louisiana Avenue Chehalis , WA 98532
Phone:360-767-0570

Jays Garage 734 SE 7th Avenue Portland, OR 97214
Phone:503-239-5167

Space Age Fuel 16211 NE Glisan Street Portland, OR 97230
Phone:503-253-8015

Bob's Automotive and Gas 9694 SE 82nd Avenue Portland, OR 97266
Phone:503-788-0545

Seaview One Stop 4105 Pacific Hwy Seaview , WA 98644
Phone:360-642-4223

Olson Brothers Tire Factory 14115 SE McLoughlin Boulevard Milwaukie, OR 97267
Phone:503-659-5141

Leather's Shell Truck Stop 12334 Ehlen Road NE Aurora, OR 97002
Phone:503-678-1558

Portside Conoco 1829 First Street Sunnyside, WA 98944
Phone:509-837-9066

Lakewood CFN at Lakewood Shell 1401 172nd Street NE Marysville, WA 98271
Phone:800-554-5549

SeQuential Biofuels 86714 McVay Highway Eugene, OR 97403 --?
Phone:503-978-3210

Pacific Pride 1980 Terminal Drive Richland, WA 99352
Phone:509-547-3326

Pacific Pride 117 E Steuben Bingen, WA 98605
Phone:509-493-1276

Grocery Boys 3430 N Crestline Spokane, WA 99207
Phone:509-487-7897

 

[MY1GDSM]

Also Us Ethanol has a 55 million-gallon-per-year ethanol plant here in Longview, Wash so I don't think E85 is going away anytime soon

 

[Ravenous]

Thanks for the info! Hopefully this comes to pass I too am a Bob's Automotive regular, maybe I'll bump into you Ravenous, I have yet to see anyone there with a performance car filling up on E85.

Tom

That would be cool, although my car is more of a work in progress with "performance car" moments. I hope to have it painted and on the track next summer with an hx35. Do you guys warehouse your parts on site? I'm going to need a wideband and exhaust soon and would like to come pick them up rather than pay shipping.

 

[95CarbonEclipse]

Portside Conoco 1829 First Street Sunnyside, WA 98944
Phone:509-837-9066

Damn... I can't believe Sunnyside has E85, but there's not a single pump in Yakima. That's BS!!

 

[ouch1011]

There are many people running e85 on these forums and nobody has had a failure due to failed fuel lines or seals caused by the corrosive nature of e85. All cars in the last two decades have fuel systems that are designed to handle at least 10% ethanol. This isn't methanol that we're talking about, now that is heavily corrosive.

E85 does require about 25% more fuel but for me it is also 25% less price wise. So 105 octane, excellent knock resistance, and cleaner burning, that seems like a win all around to me. Will it replace gasoline? Never, but right now it is one of our only options.

All cars in the past 10 years or so have been designed to run UP TO 10% Ethanol, not at least 10% In fact, now that Oregon is requiring at least 10% ethanol in all gasoline, there are alot of cars having problems with it. Mostly the problems are lean fuel trim issues, but some fuel system problems have come up. Pretty much every manufacter will say to run no more than 10% ethanol in the car unless it is designed for E85. Now that biofuels are starting to take off, dealers are running fuel samples on pretty much every car that comes in the door with a fuel system problem or fuel-related drivability issues, and if they see more than 10-15% ethanol in the fuel, they are likely to pretty much dump your entire fuel system warranty.

If you guys have been able to get away with it so far, you are lucky, but that is certainly not any indication that it is safe.

You are right about the E85 being less expensive for the consumer. That is because it is federally subsidized. E85 is actually more expensive to produce than gasoline, so if the government wasn't paying for a good portion of the manufacturing cost, it would be more expensive than gas.

You are also right about the increased knock resistance, probably the only "up" side to E85 in my opinion. It means that manufacturers could build more efficient engines running higher compression ratios. However, they don't, because all E85 cars so far are flex fuel, meaning they will run anywhere between E0-E85. This flex fuel compatibility means that they cannot optimize the engine to run E85, so most of the benefit of E85 is wasted.

"Cleaner burning" really depends on what emissions you are looking at. Logically, you are using more fuel to produce the same amount of power, so it is likely that, especially in engines not optimised for E85, you will see greater emissions overall. I will admit that I don't know exactly what emissions will be higher out the tailpipe, but based on the chemical makeup of ethanol, I'd guess that CO2 emissions will probably be a LOT higher than a gas engine.

Honestly, my biggest issue with E85 is that the government keeps dumping money into it even though it is obviously not even a remotely possible replacement to gasoline, or even a reasonable alternative for the time being. The state of Oregon has actually gone to such lengths to support E85 that they are actually buying more expensive, less efficient vehicles simply because they will run on E85. Example, the state buys a lot of Jeeps. Instead of buying 6cyl Jeeps, like the Liberty, or even the 6cyl Grand Cherokee, they buy V8 Grand Cherokees for the sole reason that they run E85. Same thing with the Impalas, they have a ton of those because they have the 3.5L V6 that runs on E85. They could have bought 4cyl Malibus or Fusions for less and gotten better economy and lower emissions. All this money supporting E85 could be better used developing an actual replacement for gasoline.

It also bugs me that they are using food to make fuel. Just seems like a terrible waste to me.

BTW, I should clarify, I'm not attacking you guys, simply showing an opposing opinion.

 

[MY1GDSM]

All cars in the past 10 years or so have been designed to run UP TO 10% Ethanol, not at least 10% In fact, now that Oregon is requiring at least 10% ethanol in all gasoline, there are alot of cars having problems with it. Mostly the problems are lean fuel trim issues, but some fuel system problems have come up. Pretty much every manufacter will say to run no more than 10% ethanol in the car unless it is designed for E85. Now that biofuels are starting to take off, dealers are running fuel samples on pretty much every car that comes in the door with a fuel system problem or fuel-related drivability issues, and if they see more than 10-15% ethanol in the fuel, they are likely to pretty much dump your entire fuel system warranty.

If you guys have been able to get away with it so far, you are lucky, but that is certainly not any indication that it is safe.

I think This was more of A FYI thread, then a Debate on different people's views. There are a few large threads one here about E-85 If you would like to debate over it

I would'nt think that anyone would have and problems with lean Codes runing E10 (There is more than enough room for the ECU to adjust) Or even with this E20 that is Coming. Or even Adding a Few Galons of E85 And tuning for it..watching you trims

You Realy should read the link he added......

The Vast majority of people (here) have some form of aftermaket Fuel Control. whether is a Full Standalone or just a some kind of AFC...


I AM BUY NO MEANS TELLING ANYONE to Fill your tank up with ethanol without know what is ALL involved
But The way I look at it is this
I could go down and pay for 110 octane race gas in town At $6.00+ a gallon
O I could go fill up with 105 octane E85 for $3.31 O and who care's about MPG? when your boosting 25+ PSI


O BTW did you get that CAS on that Dsm you where gonna buy?

 

[Ravenous]

Ouch1011- Hey man, you have very valid points bro. I was just refering to the ability of our fuel lines, o-rings, and other bits to withstand at least 10% ethanol. Most stock fuel systems will easily be overrun trying to maintain stoich on e85. That is why I stated that supporting mods are needed. My ecu is setup for e85 and my entire fuel system has been upgraded tank to injectors. I am running perfect fuel trims and have it pushed a little on the lean side and am loving it. I don't believe that e85 is the future but it is the present and when/if it goes away I can switch back to gasoline and run a larger turbo. I see it sticking around long enough to consider it my primary fuel and more local resources means I don't have to drag my laptop around to flash back to dino juice if I can't find a pump close by. Goverment excess and poor planning is nothing new, I really wish that they could focus on innovation instead of jumping on the latest bandwagon. However this being a performance forum it is only natural that these guys understand that there is basically race fuel at their local gas station (or will be eventually).

 

[Nbayer1614]

hey guys. I just recently got into tuning with my dsm. I recently had lucas english tune my car for e85. It spikes at 28lbs and feels great. I can however, vouch for the breaking fuel line con. 2 days after having e85 my line cracked right under my fuel filter. I was told that a 1/2 inch steel braided line from pump to rail would be a good choice to replace. I didn't hear any warnings about the rubber though. also, I go to bobs gas frequently maybe I will see you guys up there.

 

[LucasEnglish]

Noah the E85 did no do that.

I have 3 1g with stock ever thing but injectors and pump that have been running on E85 for close to 2 years now. My Evo has been on it for year and a half with close to 20k and not a single Ethanol problem. I run E98 in my cars most of the summer.

I think if we are to see any problems it will take years and I am willing to deal with that to have my extra 100hp all the time.

 

[JNperformance]

I would take the extra 100 too. I am bound to break it within 3 years anyways. That would be with or without E85. Nature of the beast. I am next in line for E85.

 

[Team Addiction]

Ill have to look again but there is a vid somewhere of a 99ish suburban that ran E85 for 100,000 miles on a completely stock setup with NO ILL EFFECTS AT ALL!!!
Before ppl claim it will damage this and that do some more research!!
There are several other vehicles this has been tried on as well with positive results.

Just to throw my political bit in talk about an economic boost if we all switched over!! Keep our money in american pockets for a change!

 

[Team Addiction]

YouTube - E85 Ethanol Does not harm Non-FlexFueled Engines

I know theres another one somewhere of an 02 or 03 WRX that was switched on a completely stock setup and was going strong about a year and a half into the test.