New Ground Control springs, thinking 650 hypercoils + helper

[UofACATS]

Profile is current.

I want higher front rates. I'll keep the rear at 350, I think that's high enough. For you suspension experts, will 650 work well? I'm thinking that or 600, but I want to go as high as necessary to balance the car with the rear rates. The car is (slowly) being built for road race, but is still essentially a street car at full-weight. It will not be a DD, but will see weekend duty. I care not about comfort.

The price for springs is really not bad, but swapping out springs to try on a whim will get expensive quickly. I will be doing a full bushing kit asap, but no other major suspension changes are planned.

Track: http://www.arroyosecoraceway.com/images/track2.jpg

The helper just because they're cheap and will get the springs seated at all times. Suggestions welcome.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

You really don't need helpers in the front if you run a 7inch spring or larger. I would highly recommend helpers in the rear or at least an 8inch spring. I have hypercoils on my car with 350 # in the rear. With a 7inch spring, there is a lot of "dis-mount" action going on on bumps, etc.

 

[UofACATS]

I have 8" springs there now. When I lift the car they unseat (of course), and I get clunking in the front of the car on small bumps. Plus, helpers are 20 bucks.

I think I'll try the 650s.


(Oops, I thought I posted this thread in handling tech)

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Where did you find helpers for 20 bucks? I need a couple.

 

[UofACATS]

Where did you find helpers for 20 bucks? I need a couple.

Shop for Circle Track Racing Parts ~ Hyperco Coil Over Springs

 

[Ludachris]

I think Pegasus has them for that cheap too.

 

[mavisky]

Just curious as to why you're adding front spring?

 

[1LE]

I've got a 650/550 spring combo on my GCs and it works great with ST swaybars.

 

[mavisky]

I've got a 650/550 spring combo on my GCs and it works great with ST swaybars.

I'd imagine that would, but jacking the fronts to 650 while leaving the rears clear down at 350 you'd be only introducing more understeer to the equation.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

350 rear with a decent sway bar is a really good setup in a 2g AWD. Unless of course, the stock weight distribution has been altered.

 

[mavisky]

Even with a 650 front rate?

I've seen 1LE's car run before and it handles pretty damn neutral and he's over 200lbs heavier on the rear with good swaybars. I could see a 450/350 setup having a good balance while being a bit soft possibly, but 650/350 is going to overwork the fronts pretty often I'd think.

 

[UofACATS]

Just curious as to why you're adding front spring?

My driving.

The rear wanted to come around too easily. I spun once and went off the track, and almost spun a few other times. It's probably just my limited driving skills, but right now I need a bit more understeer. The current balance of the car is not confidence inspiring, which makes me slower overall.

I want higher rates than 500 in the front, it's just not high enough. If the fronts are overworked, I'll be happy to increase rear rate, currently 350. This is for the future.

I also added RM swaybars.

Additionally, are you speaking of a 1G, 2G, or both? Thank you for the input, the more I hear the better off I am

 

[UofACATS]

I've got a 650/550 spring combo on my GCs and it works great with ST swaybars.

Did you try a lesser rate on the front before settling on 650?

In fact, if you have a second, it would be awesome to hear any combo of spring rate F/R that you have tried and the result. Thanks.

 

[1LE]

Did you try a lesser rate on the front before settling on 650?

In fact, if you have a second, it would be awesome to hear any combo of spring rate F/R that you have tried and the result. Thanks.

Never tried anything else. Never had any desire to try anything else, that setup is absolutely perfect for me. Highest spring rate that the Koni Yellows in the GCs are really meant to handle and the balance is right where I want it to be.

At first, with that setup, I used to complain about the car understeering, but I was transitioning from an MR2. I was used to having much more effective braking and wasn't able to get rid of enough speed entering corners with the DSM (and thus the front end was pushing out).

 

[drivemusicnow]

Kyle,

600/300 is what DG sold his kit as. The front motion ratio on the 2gs is much less than the rear which requires very high front rates. I believe when Jtoby was doing the math he came to a 600/425 conclusion.
I haven't played with a 2g so I'm not going to offer a suggestion as to what is "right". IMO for on track setup, i'd start with the higher front and then slowly bring the rear up until it is right rather than the other way around.

I'm sending you a PM here pretty quick with a couple questions.

 

[mavisky]

I keep forgetting that my fwd's lamesauce rear suspension works totally different.

 

[1LE]

I keep forgetting that my fwd's lamesauce rear suspension works totally different.

Yeah, they are a completely different beast. I remember an old '90 GS daily driver of my friend's that we rallyed at first and then later on decided to prep for autox... The car always rotated surprisingly well for the hideous rear suspension and FWD, but we were looking for more. We put on a big ol' ST rear swaybar and couldn't tell a bit of difference... Not sure if '91-94 are any better...

 

[mavisky]

I've got the big ST rear bar and some reasonably high spring rates, it's pretty much on the verge of coming around at all times if you overdrive it.

Doing so ends up in experiences like this.

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