Alcohol injection

[Meklo_4G63t]

No too much noing about this system but i have a injection system that enters the mixture before the intake. I bought the car like that but also the guy had a can of denatured alcohol to use for it and told me that it suppose to be mixed half and half but my question is that its something that he bought from a hardware store and i dont know if i should use it or not. if anybody is doing the same thing i would appreciate it if you give me a few pointers

 

[kenamond]

Read the tech article in the turbo/intercooler section by dsm-monster. I don't know if it's a problem to inject before the turbocharger, but it might be. Usually, injection is after the intercooler (let the intercooler cool it some, then cool it more after the intercooler with the alcohol injection. There might be an issue with the injection into the compressor, fouling up the MAS, etc.

There are a lot of threads about this, and I suggest you read up on it. You might be able to use a lot of the parts to do a better install.

 

[MrBoxx]

No too much noing about this system but i have a injection system that enters the mixture before the intake.

I hope you're referring to the intake manifold. If it's before the turbo/intercooler, don't use it until you relocate it.

 

[Meklo_4G63t]

I hope you're referring to the intake manifold. If it's before the turbo/intercooler, don't use it until you relocate it.

yeah its on the elbow before the intake manifold......Thats not the problem. This guy told me that i got it from has denatured alcohol that he told me to mix with water. Its just something that he got from lowes.. I dont know weather to trust it or not

Read the tech article in the turbo/intercooler section by dsm-monster. I don't know if it's a problem to inject before the turbocharger, but it might be. Usually, injection is after the intercooler (let the intercooler cool it some, then cool it more after the intercooler with the alcohol injection. There might be an issue with the injection into the compressor, fouling up the MAS, etc.

There are a lot of threads about this, and I suggest you read up on it. You might be able to use a lot of the parts to do a better install.

I was on DevilsOwn website for the methonal system and they have the ways were you should put it and were mine is located is were its best at. Mine doesnt inject till 16psi

My actual question is Denatured alcohol bought out of a Lowes that came with the car when i bought it. Im the second owner after the car was built and the guy never fill the bottle that had it. Because he didnt use it but he had bought a can of denatured alcohol. I was wondering if that can be use or you ever heard of somebody using this.

My actual question is Denatured alcohol bought out of a Lowe's that came with the car when i bought it. I'm the second owner after the car was built and the guy never fill the bottle that had it. Because he didn't use it but he had bought a can of denatured alcohol. I was wondering if that can be use or you ever heard of somebody using this.

Injecting methanol or acetone or ethanol does add octane. Its noted that methanol adds 5 octane points per 10% injected (take a look: Ray Hall ). So if I run 30% meth injection thats 93octane + (5points x 3) = 108 octane. Meth has a very very high latent heat of evaporation, around 225btu/lbs, where water's latent heat of evaporation is around 975BTU/lbs, so water has a greater cooling effect while the meth adds octane and cools also. You will definitely need some type of controller that progressively injects the meth instead of spraying a full stream at a given boost. This guy's kits a really nice and plus he uses some of the best nozzles on the market today, Hago nozzles.


I just read like you said on an old forum and acetone is what they call it. ok i shouldn't go no higher than 92octane here because i cant find 93 at the pump in Washington. I was going to see about race gas but thats to high of an additive to this engine

 

[kenamond]

Okay, from your original post, it sounded like you were injecting into the air filter or something. Injecting before the TB elbow would be fine.

Some folks just run a water/meth kit off of their windshield wiper bottle. The 2gs (maybe 1gs, too) have an idiot light for the wiper bottle level, so if you mod your injection kit to feed off of the wiper bottle, you'll know when to fill it. All I've seen have been water/meth kits, not alcohol. Might need to change your nozzle sizes if you move to water/meth, but it sounds like you've got the system in place to do it.

I've been drooling over the Aquamist systems. They have a kit that uses the injector harness signal to determine how much water/meth to inject. So the water/meth injection tracks your fuel maps. Costs a bunch, but I'd like to do water/meth over FMIC (I'm a sleeper fan).

Make sure you keep the nozzles clean. They clog up over time. I know the aquamist system and others can detect when the nozzles are blocked and can trigger a warning light. If you tune such that you rely on the water/meth kit, you need to know when the kit isn't functioning or you can damage the motor.

 

[turboglenn]

Just use blue winter mix windshield washer fluid, it's not as perfect as mixing your own methanol and water, but it's dummy proof. I have no clue on the type of tune that you're running, but if you're pushing high boost, lean AFR's or high timing, DON'T let that bottle get empty, if the car"needs" the methanol/water mix for the tune it could be very dangerous to drive without i. But it sounds like the guy just added to have it on there if he didn't give you any special instructions on the fuel needs of the car or how extreme or safe the tune is.

You might want to call and ask if it's safe without it, or if it has to run to keep the car alive on whatever tuning ( if any ) was performed on the car after it was added.

I just put a devilsown kit on my car and the "blue juice" is a deal at 1-2 bucks a gallon, and as i said before, you can't go wrong using it.

U;timately i will mix my own or just order a case at a time from devilsown, but i'll probably jsut mix it if i can find pure methanol for a good price near here.

 

[Meklo_4G63t]

Okay, from your original post, it sounded like you were injecting into the air filter or something. Injecting before the TB elbow would be fine.

Some folks just run a water/meth kit off of their windshield wiper bottle. The 2gs (maybe 1gs, too) have an idiot light for the wiper bottle level, so if you mod your injection kit to feed off of the wiper bottle, you'll know when to fill it. All I've seen have been water/meth kits, not alcohol. Might need to change your nozzle sizes if you move to water/meth, but it sounds like you've got the system in place to do it.

I've been drooling over the Aquamist systems. They have a kit that uses the injector harness signal to determine how much water/meth to inject. So the water/meth injection tracks your fuel maps. Costs a bunch, but I'd like to do water/meth over FMIC (I'm a sleeper fan).

Make sure you keep the nozzles clean. They clog up over time. I know the aquamist system and others can detect when the nozzles are blocked and can trigger a warning light. If you tune such that you rely on the water/meth kit, you need to know when the kit isn't functioning or you can damage the motor.

Well i dont know the name of the system that I have by heart but it is a full system and u can see my gallery i have pics of it. Well it has a drain line in the trunk to go to the bottom of the car and its mounted on my dashboard. Green light is on when it is purged and yellow light comes on at 16 psi. U can tell when the car come under power with it because it gets a deep tone when it injects

Just use blue winter mix windshield washer fluid, it's not as perfect as mixing your own methanol and water, but it's dummy proof. I have no clue on the type of tune that you're running, but if you're pushing high boost, lean AFR's or high timing, DON'T let that bottle get empty, if the car"needs" the methanol/water mix for the tune it could be very dangerous to drive without i. But it sounds like the guy just added to have it on there if he didn't give you any special instructions on the fuel needs of the car or how extreme or safe the tune is.

You might want to call and ask if it's safe without it, or if it has to run to keep the car alive on whatever tuning ( if any ) was performed on the car after it was added.

I just put a devilsown kit on my car and the "blue juice" is a deal at 1-2 bucks a gallon, and as i said before, you can't go wrong using it.

U;timately i will mix my own or just order a case at a time from devilsown, but i'll probably jsut mix it if i can find pure methanol for a good price near here.

I was just going to grab a bottle of the already mixed stuff but there hard to find so im going to mix acetone with this but im going to use distilled water along with it instead of regular water. to much impurities

 

[gixrman]

Just use blue winter mix windshield washer fluid, it's not as perfect as mixing your own methanol and water, but it's dummy proof. I have no clue on the type of tune that you're running, but if you're pushing high boost, lean AFR's or high timing, DON'T let that bottle get empty, if the car"needs" the methanol/water mix for the tune it could be very dangerous to drive without i. But it sounds like the guy just added to have it on there if he didn't give you any special instructions on the fuel needs of the car or how extreme or safe the tune is.

You might want to call and ask if it's safe without it, or if it has to run to keep the car alive on whatever tuning ( if any ) was performed on the car after it was added.

I just put a devilsown kit on my car and the "blue juice" is a deal at 1-2 bucks a gallon, and as i said before, you can't go wrong using it.

U;timately i will mix my own or just order a case at a time from devilsown, but i'll probably jsut mix it if i can find pure methanol for a good price near here.

Glenn,I would agree with you but I can say from personel experience that the WW fluid is not a good choice. After running it in my car for a year I took the nozzles out and found the little screens clogged and coated with blue dye. In fact everything that the fluid ran through was coated. I had to take everything apart and clean it. I have since switched to the denatured alcohol and distilled wated in a 50/50 mix.

 

[Meklo_4G63t]

this guy is what i was looking for to tell me what to use. I figured distilled water would be but do you clean your nozzles still

 

[Calan]

And the blue dye might contain glycol and other chemicals that you (I) don't really want in the intake system.

It works, but a better solution is to just mix your own. Run a 50/50 mix of methanol and distilled water. I get methanol in a 5 gallon plastic jug at a local petroleum shop, and distilled water at Wally world. In my case, it lasts for 20-30 fillups, depending on how hard I drive.

I know acetone is used in a few DIY octane booster recipes, but I don't know about running it through a WAI system. I don't having any information on it, but I get a funny feeling thinking about it

I'd just stick with the 50/50 meth/H2O mix, or maybe substitue isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol instead of methanol if you can't get it. If you go with isopropyl, get the stronger concentration.. I think it is like 95 or 98% (I forget what they call it, but the local Wal-Mart sells quart-sized bottles of both types in the pharmacy). The "normal" stuff is only like 80%, if I remember correctly.

You may also find that pure distilled water gives you as much or even more of a benefit, depending on your climate and how good your local gas is... due to it's much better intake cooling ability.

 

[Meklo_4G63t]

I dont know but it had clear solution in it already. one thing i did and i wasnt thinking is i had ran boosted octane by using outlaw and hit it with that old solution thats in it now. It lead to me run a 3 foot flame out the pipe. well anyway if it adds octane is it cool to run it with the race gas they use at the track.

Another thing is that what ever it is when i cut the system on it makes my exhaust smell so bad. but whatever makes it go the right way. i got to gallons of distilled already and im draining the tank now

 

[gixrman]

this guy is what i was looking for to tell me what to use. I figured distilled water would be but do u clean your nozzles still

I did switch nozzles after I switched pump pressure switch's (went from 60 to 150psi)and the nozzles are clean after about 2 weeks of running.

 

[spyderturbo007]

I run a 75% / 25% mix of MeOH and distilled water. You can pick up MeOH pretty cheap at Wal-Mart under the name of Heet. Make sure you get the yellow bottles, not the red ones. The red are isopropanol.

 

[Meklo_4G63t]

I run a 75% / 25% mix of MeOH and distilled water. You can pick up MeOH pretty cheap at Wal-Mart under the name of Heet. Make sure you get the yellow bottles, not the red ones. The red are isopropanol.

well i got the bach of denatured alcohol and distilled water. shes runing good

 

[spyderturbo007]

I've never run ethanol, only methanol. You'll have to let me know how things work out. Does the exhaust still smell yummy when the system kicks on? I love that smell!

 

[Meklo_4G63t]

I've never run ethanol, only methanol. You'll have to let me know how things work out. Does the exhaust still smell yummy when the system kicks on? I love that smell!

Yeah my girlfriend hates it when it injects. If its dry sunday will have the first test on the engine but im going to do a bottom end build in a few months. thanks for the advice with were it injects at. I read a little more on it and thats where they say to inject at.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Injecting methanol or acetone or ethanol does add octane. Its noted that methanol adds 5 octane points per 10% injected (take a look: Ray Hall ). So if I run 30% meth injection thats 93octane + (5points x 3) = 108 octane.

Sorry to "bust your bubble"...but you will not get the numbers as you've added them up. It's not the mix of the injected fluid their talking about, but rather the percentage of mix related to your fuel, which would "probably" not be much more than 10% (90% fuel-10% alky/meth/whatever). Try 93 + 5 points (max) to get 98 (maybe). Although the cooling effect on the intake charge is the real benefit in this particular mod.

 

[Calan]

Like Jim said... and if it's a hot climate and/or you don't have a FMIC, you may see more benefit from running pure water (or at least less alcohol), as long as your fuel is at least 91 or so and not complete crap.

More meth/less water = higher octane
More water/less meth = better intake charge cooling

 

[Meklo_4G63t]

Sorry to "bust your bubble"...but you will not get the numbers as you've added them up. It's not the mix of the injected fluid their talking about, but rather the percentage of mix related to your fuel, which would "probably" not be much more than 10% (90% fuel-10% alky/meth/whatever). Try 93 + 5 points (max) to get 98 (maybe). Although the cooling effect on the intake charge is the real benefit in this particular mod.

ok thanks what about race gas

 

[Calan]

With high octane race gas, I'd probably run pure water anyway to get max cooling. You've already got plenty of octane.

 

[Meklo_4G63t]

Like Jim said... and if it's a hot climate and/or you don't have a FMIC, you may see more benefit from running pure water (or at least less alcohol), as long as your fuel is at least 91 or so and not complete crap.

More meth/less water = higher octane
More water/less meth = better intake charge cooling

I have a front mount but im in a cold climate right now

 

[FORMONTOYA]

I have a front mount but im in a cold climate right now

Lucky you!

Down in Texas (and I imagine in OK - Craig) the driving force is cooling (screw octane adders) as it breaks 100 degrees in the summer for 2 1/2-3 months out of the year which causes outrageous intake temps. Right now is the best time for me as it's in the 40s-60s during the winter.

 

[Calan]

Well you could inject pure methanol even with race gas and get higher octane... but you're going to hit a point of diminishing returns. I think with race gas alone, you'll have issues with turbo efficiency, timing, and maxing the injector duty cycle before you have to worry about more octane.

And you can't get the intake charge too cold... as far as I know

But... try it and see what happens

EDIT:

Exactly Jim... I hear ya brother. Summer here sucks!

The best combination I've found for summer is 8 gallons of 91 (hard to get anything higher here )... and 2 gallons of E85 (impossible to get here ). And then pure distilled water through the WAI.

 

[Meklo_4G63t]

Lucky you!

Down in Texas (and I imagine in OK - Craig) the driving force is cooling (screw octane adders) as it breaks 100 degrees in the summer for 2 1/2-3 months out of the year which causes outrageous intake temps. Right now is the best time for me as it's in the 40s-60s during the winter.

Well my cars are about to go thru a climate change because were going to move to North carolina this summer and i think im going to take the GSX down to Florida with me for school for a month then i will go back to NC its a change but better but i get alot of condensation because the pipe runing beside the engine

 

[Meklo_4G63t]

all i can say is WOW!!! i hiked the boost back up to 22 and i got the tank full with a 75/25 mix and got some where that i can push the button.. she leaves good when geting injected and i ran outta room for second.