1G Who has installed an automatic turbo 2G trans in a 1G?

[Car Cannibal]

Looking for any input on what to expect when this goes down. The car is an AWD auto 1G and so far I heard that all I need is the Kiggly adapter and some minor tweaks to the tranny mounts.

Also heard that the axles and center diff are a problem so I would like to hear from those who have done it on what to expect.

 

[scottr126]

From my experiences with my AWD Mirage you cant get a 2g auto trans into a 1g, the case on a 2g trans is actually a little bit longer then a 1g, the kiggly kit is mainly used to mount a 6 bolt engine in a 2g body.

-Scott

 

[Car Cannibal]

Ah, this is not looking good. IPT said they knew of a few people that did it, so I wonder if you need the 2g axles or something else to make this work??

 

[Car Cannibal]

This has been done and I have talked to a few people in the know about it and everything is tight but bolts right in.

Precision's 9.5" 4500 stall lock up converter and a custom manual shift box are replacing this lame ol 1G trans in 08. No more horrible 60fts and massive slippage on the high end.

I will post back when the swap is complete, it looks like $2000 with a used 2G Trans, Install, Precision Converter, Kiggly Flexplate and Manual Shift Box.

 

[dsm dork]

If you have massive slippage on the top end you need a better converter

 

[Car Cannibal]

Every 1G with a remanned converter will have massive slippage, it is impossible not too, it goes against how you get the stock converter to give you low end stall. The only converter that could guarantee limited slip up top is Precision, and they no longer make a 1G converter. Barely anyone on here calculates there slippage with the remanned 1G's, if they did they would bail on it also.

I am through with putting $$ into mods when the converter is pissing away 20-30% at WOT.
No way to slip when you lock the converter in 3rd, only the 2G trans will allow you to do that.
Even if you don't lock it, the Precision is WAY tighter up top and can be sent back for tweaking.

 

[scottr126]

I know the 2g IPT converter lock up is pretty tough.. it held about 800 crank hp on the dyno through a couple pulls for me. I was scolded by john for doing it though when I told him..

 

[Car Cannibal]

That's the Precision Converter, IPT doesn't manufacture torque converters. They for some reason spray them black and call it theirs?? You can get that converter from Precision for $925.

And your post is exactly why I am doing this, those Precision 3 disc lock ups are badd ass. I would be curious to see your track slip while locking it. With as much power as you are making I wonder if you are starting to drive through the converter clutches and getting it to slip a little bit.

Scott, how often have you locked the converter, how is the trans holding up doing that at WOT??

 

[dsm dork]

That doesn't make sense if you say the Precision converter is better then the IPT and they guarantee it wont slip as much as the IPT yet it's the same stuff?

If that's true then that sucks because that means Precisions converters actually suck not IPT's.

 

[Car Cannibal]

Come again??

The 2G, 9.5", Billet Cover, Lock Up Clutch converter is made by Precision, they come purplish pink in color from Precision.

The converters that slips like madd are any remanned 1G non lock up converter. All the proof you need is for guys to post their time slips with rpm's through the traps.

The 2G Precision converter unlocked will kill the 1G's efficiency, let alone if you lock it. Enough reason to move to the 2G trans for me.

This the point of the thread, there is no sense in staying with the 1G's if no one will make an efficient converter that will give you the bottom end stall and top end efficiency.

So I am looking for those who have installed the 2G in a 1G so we can continue the DSM mismatching of parts like 6 bolt motors in 2G's etc.

 

[dsm dork]

There is a company that makes a 1g remanufactured converter that doesn't slip anywhere near 20-30% up top. Problem is IPT only offers 11" reman converters... BIG hint

Instead of having to change the whole setup(1g - 2g) and buying a thousand dollar converter.

 

[Car Cannibal]

Proof is in costumers running products that back up manufactures claims, Precision has those. If something else is out there the word of mouth aspect of this other converter is missing.

And a non locker will not be more efficient than a locked converter so my mind is already made up and am ditching the 1G trans/converter combo.

I just would like to hear from those who have done this, maybe they're not on this board or as many out there in general.

 

[Jason's TSI]

With the spragless Hughes restall I am using, we have very little slippage up top. Trapped 148.9mph on 26" QTP's turning around 8500-9000rpm

 

[Car Cannibal]

If you are turning 8500 through the traps at 149 you are losing 33%, at 8000 would be %26.
This same car with a locked converter at 0% would have turned 6400.

TCI - TECHNICAL INFORMATION: Racing Calculators
1G's have a 3.31 rear end and 1:1 3rd gear tranny ratio.

Regardless of AWD etc, that doesn't factor into these calculations of drivetrain loss. Now put about 22% on top of that due to AWD and your motor is really pumping out some power!!

Too bad 1G Precision Converter owners never comment about them on the boards.

I also just read a post about chipped TCU's with set shift points at full voltage for rock hard shifts. Getting way easier to move to 2G now than ever before.

 

[Jason's TSI]

1G auto AWD's have an overall 4.42 to 1 gear ratio

 

[Jason's TSI]

So that puts the slippage at just over 5%

 

[dsm dork]

Wa Wa WaAaAaAa

Like I said if you are having slippage problems up top you need a better converter.

 

[Car Cannibal]

Huh, I went back and found a spec that said a final drive ratio for 1G AWD Autos is 4.0.
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/Trannies.html

That would still put you at 10% at 8500 and 17% if you are going through at 9000.

Either way, 10% is still too much and 17% is unacceptable IMO.

 

[Jason's TSI]

Huh, I went back and found a spec that said a final drive ratio for 1G AWD Autos is 4.0.
http://www.vfaq.com/mods/Trannies.html

That would still put you at 10% at 8500 and 17% if you are going through at 9000.

Either way, 10% is still too much and 17% is unacceptable IMO.

You are still wrong, for AWD 1g auto it is 4.42 (factory manual specs) , its 4.0 for the FWD. I am perfectly happy with my 5% slip converter.

 

[Jason's TSI]

Just went back and rechecked, its 4.007 for non-turbo FWD, 4.376 for turbo FWD, and 4.422 for turbo AWD.

 

[Car Cannibal]

The chart says 4.06 but it could be wrong. If so then your converter is much tighter than the OTHERS out there.
But you never stated your actual RPM crossing the line either so that would narrow down what Hughes does.


But check out this posts data, closer to the other link I posted on the 4.0 for AWD Auto's.
With this link at 3.957 at 8500rpm your converter is 11.6%. I really doubt Hughes got an 11" converter to only slip 5% yet give you enough low end stall. If so they are really doing something right.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/automatic-tranny/157978-automatic-gsx-gear-ratios-final-drive.html

 

[Jason's TSI]

The 4.422 number comes from the Mitsubishi factory assembly manual, go look it up. The Hughes converter is tight but it will spool a 67mm T4 and a 4094R without nitrous on a 2.1 or a 2.3l (somewhat slower on the 4094R). On a 50hp shot of nitrous the spool is very fast.

 

[Car Cannibal]

Ya I see where the number is coming from and then you have the chart that moderators on here refer too and the one I don't buy is the service manual, which sounds really odd I know.

Let's just take your slip as an example why there can't be a 4.42 as the final drive ratio.

Let's say you are going through the traps at 8500.

TCI - TECHNICAL INFORMATION: Racing Calculators

So, 8500rpm, 26" tire, 4.42 final ratio, trans 1, mph 149 = -.1%

A restalled/non locker 11" converter can't be over or at 100% efficiency.

Ok plug in 9000 as the rpm, 5.75%, I don't believe this at all, no way they can give you extra stall and be that tight up top using existing non bent finned stators. As soon as you bend the stators fins the efficiency will start to drop off and it doesn't start off at 0%. If you had a 9" converter then I could believe this, but not an 11" that is stalling higher than it's designed intent. This is my beef here with the final drive, getting an 11" to stall and be super efficient at 5% is NOT going to happen. If you said it was not a restall I could buy it.

This is why the 4.42 number just won't add up, the 4.06 number makes way more sense.

As much as I would like to buy a 5% efficient 1G non locker that will stall at 4k I know it can't be an 11" with bent stator fins. I would believe the Precision 1G could as it's 9.5" and done by Precision.

Kiggly stated his 9.5" Precision was slipping at something like 5.5% and I believe he also states the final drive as 4.42. So using that drive for both you guys you get this

Your 11" restalled converter is as efficient as Precisions 9.5" converter. Too much of a stretch IMO.

I'm not trying to bust your balls, I just want to nail down 1G vs 2G options and this efficiency aspect of the two trans.

 

[scottr126]

Really the only time I messed around with the lock up was when the car was on the dyno.. we did back to back tests and saw a gain of about 60 hp locking up the torque converter. BUT that is on the dyno, how exactly it will effect your trip down the quarter mile I dont know, I didnt really mess around with it that much last year. I remember trying it once when I got into 3rd if I remember correctly and the rpms shot down so fast I got out of it. Maybeee if you could time it just right it could help but no matter when you engage it you have to expect a shock from losing alot of rpm from the slippage disapearing. Like I said before I had to switch to a IPT 1G transmission and IPT torque converter because the 2g trans wouldnt fit in my mirage and the few passes I did last year went well.

-Scott

That's the Precision Converter, IPT doesn't manufacture torque converters. They for some reason spray them black and call it theirs?? You can get that converter from Precision for $925.

And your post is exactly why I am doing this, those Precision 3 disc lock ups are badd ass. I would be curious to see your track slip while locking it. With as much power as you are making I wonder if you are starting to drive through the converter clutches and getting it to slip a little bit.

Scott, how often have you locked the converter, how is the trans holding up doing that at WOT??

 

[1SloColt]

Like I said before I had to switch to a IPT 1G transmission and IPT torque converter because the 2g trans wouldnt fit in my mirage and the few passes I did last year went well.

-Scott

How far off was the fitment for your 2g auto in your 4th gen? Massive amounts of cutting to the framerails you think? Or was it a trans mount problem?