BW S256 Question

[T9S1i]

Wayne has certainly done his homework on these turbos. I went ahead and ordered the S256 Extended tip. It is only available in the 64/74 configuration, so easy choice. I plan to run it to the max pressure ratio efficient up here, which is around 34-35PSI, so hopefully I will be able to give out some numbers soon.

Josh

I was looking on bullseye's site and i see that they offer the 74/64 and the 69.5/61.5

Out of curiosity, if the extended tip s256 is the 74/64, then what is the 69.5/61.5???

 

[wt71gas]

Sorry it took me so long to see this guys

The S256 is only available in the 64/74 combination in the bolt up dsm housing. The other size is for a housing that is used on john deere's and has been used on some indian motorcycles. It is not available so I guess that pretty much makes up your mind

Wayne

Here is some current news for you guys. The S362 is available in two different choices as shown above. The S256 will have a smaller turbine wheel in the future but it is mainly the 1.6l and 1.8l honda guys who have been begging for that. Bullseye said the dsm's move enough air for the bigger turbine wheel in that turbo.

T9S1i: Here are the answers from previous posts. They should have it as something they can do pretty soon but it kinda seems pointless on a 2.0L or bigger motor.

 

[IPT]

I fixed the link. Hopefully you can see it now.

The SC61 had the stage V turbine wheel in a .82 T3 4-bolt housing.

 

[IPT]

The S362 was in the .85 T3 divided inlet.

The log manifold was setup for an undivided.

 

[dsm-onster]

It looks like to me that from 3.1K rpms to 4.3K rpms the S362 tune was running WAY leaner than the sc61 tune. I was going to say that even the S362 beat the scm61 in spool time, but I don't get that a/f graph. Did the sc61 need som sort of supper rich ration on spoolup to avoid knock? Was the timing advance too high for the SC61 between those points? If so, Then retarding the timing would allowe a leaner a/f ratio to assist in spool AND would assist in spool in itself.

Otherwise, that's a great set of runs there.

 

[damnslowtsi]

When I spoke to Bullseye Power they said it could be done but asked a lot of questions regarding engine bay size, engine displacement, etc... probably to find the best way to make something like that work in a given application. The S258 that I sold with the smaller compressor cover was the same price as the standard S258 so I imagine the cost would be the same for that too. Only way to know for sure is to have exact specs ready and see what they want tot try and put together.

I 'm just curious about the price mark up if any for machinning the cover, not the price of the complete unit. I assume it is some kind of fixed fee and shouldn't depend on the choice of the hot side etc. Also, I 'd like to know for sure if it is even physically possible to fit the 66mm wheel in there. If it turns out let's say that they can only do 62mm one, that alone may affect my decision about the rest of the things. The motor is a run of the mill 2.0, nothing fancy, a typical DSM set up. The only thing that the Colt has considerably less space between a motor and a radiator.

 

[aero_sallee]

I was looking on bullseye's site and i see that they offer the 74/64 and the 69.5/61.5

Out of curiosity, if the extended tip s256 is the 74/64, then what is the 69.5/61.5???

Slightly off topic:

I'm very curious to find out more about the turbine wheel HTT offers for the S300 series turbos they offer.
http://www.htturbo.com/ht71.htm
Their description:

Borg Warner Low Drive Pressure turbine wheels. AKA, the "Killer Wheel"
(71mm instead of the 65mm HTB2 wheel).


The initial spool-up of these turbos might be slightly slower than out HTB2 series turbos but since the turbine wheels are low drive pressure design, they then build boost faster, offering you quicker acceleration.
These turbos should also provide a couple hundred degrees cooler EGT's under heavy acceleration and heavy
loads like towing.

Lower drive pressure would be really nice for us I think.

 

[IPT]

There are two different S300 turbine wheels. Just like the two different S200 turbine wheels that BEP uses.

When choosing turbine wheels, because some of the turbine housings will not be available with the smaller turbine wheel. (because they are already cut for the bigger one direct from BW.)

 

[damnslowtsi]

Yes, but neither of them seems to be the 71mm one that site was reffering to.

http://www.bullseyepower.com/S300.asp

 

[aero_sallee]

Yes, but neither of them seems to be the 71mm one that site was reffering to.

http://www.bullseyepower.com/S300.asp

I'm guessing its just that BEP only deals with those two?

 

[IPT]

Yes, but neither of them seems to be the 71mm one that site was reffering to.

http://www.bullseyepower.com/S300.asp

There are at least a dozen S300 turbine wheels all together. I thought that BEP was using the 71mm turbine wheel, but you are right I do not see it on their web site.

 

[AWDer]

Alright, I have not been doing nothing. I have been moving and celebrating my birthday as well as tuning. I need to finish fine tuning a little more and make a dyno trip. After that it is off to the track I go.

I have more A/F dialed in to a flat as a board 12:1 on my wideband. Boost is currently at 32 PSI and may be raised a couple more pounds. Ignition timing is up to 19-20 degrees. I am seeing upper 40lbs/min in with 100-110 degree intake temps because of the 100 degree weather. This is on a stock intake manifold and at 6000FT. At sea level, based on my old findings with changes in airflow, I imagine it would be in the 50-54 lbs/min of airflow with its current settings and the temperature. With an SMIM and cooler temps at sea level, 56-60 lbs/min of airflow could probably be seen and maybe 52-56 lbs/min up here. All of this is on a 2g MAS with DSMLink.

Also, keep in mind the compressor map of this turbo shows it being efficient to 35-38PSI easily, maybe more. The results I am getting are at 32PSI.

Although I have not been to the track yet, DSMLink's resulting times from my pulls is showing a good amount of pull. 70-90 times are in the 1.6 range, which is great up here.

Also, right now the car is having it's downpipe redone. The downpipe that is on it right now necks down to fit the stock O2 housing. It actually creates a wall and blockage protruding into the opening of the new O2 housing, because of the smaller diameter. I am sure that is not helping power or spool up.

Anyway, I will post some final logs and hopefully a dyno too at some point. When I go to the track I will try and film it and will certainly post the times and slip. I hope this turbo does as well at the track as it has during tuning, and then again I hope I can drive it well too.

Josh

 

[No_Skillz]

Has anyone tried this turbo internally gated? I would really like this piece but I don't know if I can financially do an external gate setup.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

go big or go home mike. You know i'm usually an advocate for internal gate, but ever since my damn 5031 can't hold 24 psi til redline, i'm considering moving to an external (either FP or a BW turbo, haven't decided yet). I didn't get a chance to reply, but I did get your PM. I'm going to do more research on this bad boy and see if the $ is good as performance.

On a side note, I'm seeing guys with the 256 ext. tip log 50+ lb/min at 23 psi!

 

[No_Skillz]

Haha Tom. You know I'm all done with supporting mods and I'm dying for a turbo now. Plus the fact that I haven't seen my car in 3 weeks really kills me. I miss it more than my gf (just between us, m'ok?). Shoot, I might even pick up a coupla cheap turbos while I'm in China. I've been reading nonstop about these S256s but external gate is a financial hurdle, whereas I could just pick up that PTE I've been wanting for about 1 grand.

Oh btw, if you want to sell that 5031, I get first dibs, aight?

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

i'm actually selling my 256 to go bigger but i can say that the internal is not something i liked on it. A descent external setup is ideal.

You can pick up an awesome O2 housing from SLS or punishment for a 38mm gate and be all set.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Haha Tom. You know I'm all done with supporting mods and I'm dying for a turbo now. Plus the fact that I haven't seen my car in 3 weeks really kills me. I miss it more than my gf (just between us, m'ok?). Shoot, I might even pick up a coupla cheap turbos while I'm in China. I've been reading nonstop about these S256s but external gate is a financial hurdle, whereas I could just pick up that PTE I've been wanting for about 1 grand.

Oh btw, if you want to sell that 5031, I get first dibs, aight?

well, it's not a whether of IF I sell the turbo, it's a matter of when. I'm probably going to upgrade a little past christmas, when I treat myself either to a BW turbo or a FP setup

martin,
what was the reason for the upgrade? How much did the s256 flow for you? what are you looking to upgrade to?

 

[No_Skillz]

i'm actually selling my 256 to go bigger but i can say that the internal is not something i liked on it. A descent external setup is ideal.

You can pick up an awesome O2 housing from SLS or punishment for a 38mm gate and be all set.

Would one of the cheaper re-routed O2 housings from punishment do the job? I've been hearing alot of good things about their products lately. (Oy the SLS rerouted O2 is ~$300 )

Also, anything specifically you didn't like about the internal gate setup?

Thanks for the help.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

I have never used a Punishment product so i really couldn't comment on quality or performance.

SLS has made a lot of stuff for me and has always been EXCELLENT. I can say that all of the products i have purchased from SLS have been worth EVERY PENNY.

As far as the internal gate..... it just didn't do as well as the turbo could. It seemed to be a little restrictive with the internal setup.

Would one of the cheaper re-routed O2 housings from punishment do the job? I've been hearing alot of good things about their products lately. (Oy the SLS rerouted O2 is ~$300 )

Also, anything specifically you didn't like about the internal gate setup?

Thanks for the help.

 

[No_Skillz]

Are those O2 housings on your website made by SLS?

 

[damnslowtsi]

Hey Martin, can you expound a bit more on the internal gate issues. Usually it is either creep or inability to run desired boost due to a flapper being blown open. Yours seem to be something else. I know that external is better, just trying to get a feeling of how much internal will suck in this aplication. I 'm currently running an SCM 61 with internal and don't have much complaints. It can hold as low as 11-12 and as high as I ever needed which is around 30#s with no creep and a little spike.

 

[me612]

Is there anywhere that shows a picture of the difference between the Extended Tip and non extended tip BW turbos? I'm going to look at a used S362, and I only want it if it's extended tip. Any pictures out there that compare extended to non-extended?

 

[brute]

Martin, Steve, and wt71gas, do any of you have dyno graphs of the 256? Preferably on a DSM with the Bullseye housing. I'd like to see spool/boost holding characteristics as well as the shape of the curve.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Martin, Steve, and wt71gas, do any of you have dyno graphs of the 256? Preferably on a DSM with the Bullseye housing. I'd like to see spool/boost holding characteristics as well as the shape of the curve.

I never dyno'd the car, but on pump, I'd guesstimate 425whp based on weight and traps. On VP103 at 32psi, i'd say it was close to 500whp from the improvement in 70-90 times. Spool was very quick for a 50+lb/min turbo, as others have indicated in this thread. Boost held flat as high as I revved it but that's probably more a function of how well the gate is working since I wasn't at the point of choking the compressor yet.

I finally got my fab work done at JMFab, hoping to have it driving by the weekend:

LINK

 

[blcknspo0ln]

I'm guessing you're tuning with DSMLink? Mind sharing the log? thanks!