idle with 64414's and 2.4

[Spool'n Spyder]

just got my 2.4 running on 64414's and I cant hardly get it to idle at all. The vacuum jumps around like crazy and never passes 10 in. Sometimes it wants to dye and other times it want to do a 1000rpm lope and others it wants to rev like 1200-1500. Where would be a good place to start? Then after running it a while, leave it for a little while and it wont idle at all till I drive a little while. Also when i'm at cruising speed (Ya know barely pushing the throtlle) it jumps really bad. I didnt know if that was the cams. If you can help please do so I can get this fixed.

Thanks, Nathan

 

[JWoodley]

Check for possible vacuum leaks before you tear into anything.

 

[Spool'n Spyder]

I did, I could not find any

 

[paper_clip_boy]

Crower's Website says minimum 1200rpm Idle with these badboys. If these are anything like FP3x's than your definetly going to idle like ass, Idle will be high sometimes up to 1500 and your vacuum will suck ass.

 

[AL92]

Ummm yeah right..I have 414s in my 2.4. Vacuum is 14 inches I am at 1900 feet above sealevel. They idle like babies at 1000 and I can idle them down to like 850 if want to hear nice lope but no stalling. I had cam surge though at about 24 to 30 ish mph and just took out a few degrees of timing at those mph points in the rpm scales of my dsmlink. If you have 10 inches your engine is pooched ,you have big vacuum leaks or something is very wrong. Heck buddy was running 415s no problem at all in his 2.0 for petes sake.
The 414s pulled like crazy from about 4000 to my 8000 redline. I liked them so much think getting same cams or brian crower version in my auto race car.

 

[AL92]

You have eprom ecu but do you have dsmlink or just chipped. If just chipped you might need to go to 1000 on the chip.

 

[Savage Talon]

I have the same problem with my Comp 400's in my 2.4. I had the stockers in for smog and they idled just fine. As soon as I put the 400's in I can't do s**t with it. I'm going to try to reset the biss as per faq and test the idle motor on a ohm meter.

 

[Spool'n Spyder]

Well, ive got them where they are half decent and it runs great as long as I give it gas.

My new problem is that when I am cruising down the road say 40 in 4th gear and I try to stay at that one speed the car jerks really bad. I have a brand new o2 sensor, brand new tps, did a smoke vaccum test and a boost leak test. There are no more vaccum or boost leaks but it still does it. There is no check engine light either (that would be too easy ).
One guy told me it may be from the cams but I dont believe that. I read in another thread where if you have the head or block decked that the timing would be off. I have adjustable cam grears so I could adjust the timing if need be. I have checked the timing and done a leak down test and everything checks out. Now the motor is broken in and I can turn the boost up but I dont want to until I get this bug worked out. I have been searching for about 2 weeks and saw this problem but nobody posted a fix for it. If anyone has any idea please help me.

Thanks

 

[AL92]

Ok if you have dsmlink you turn your idle up to 1000 or so and the cams idle like glass.
If you are getting surging down low I had it at around 25 to 30 or so mph you take dsmlink and drop some timing out a few degrees at the rpm point were you get that surging its usually under spool up anyway.
That helped my car it was not fun in school zones and stuff.
If ou have no way to up idle speed or take down timing at specific rpm well you are going to not be too happy with those cams. If you really get tired of them I will buy them for a good price want another set for my race car.

 

[steel_3d]

The way I smoothed out my FFWD 272's was by avancing the exhaust cam and retarding the intake cam each by 6-8 cam degrees. This reduces overlap and smooths out the idle. Also makes the car slower.

Do this at your own risk of course. Make sure your timing marks line up correctly to begin with. Then adjust in two-three degree increments, and turn the engine over by hand with spark plugs out to feel for piston-valve interference.

 

[Spool'n Spyder]

I'm not getting rid of these cams. If it is the cams causing this then thats fine, I can deal with it. I just dont want it to be something wrong with my car or something else.

I have thought about adjusting the cam gears and doing it like you said moving it a little and checking for valve clearance. How much slower did it make your car? I read somewhere that you can spool the turbo faster by adjusting but I cant remember which way it was. I know a dyno would be the best way but i'm out of money and the closest dyno is 5 hours away. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[steel_3d]

Retarding the exhaust cam is what spools the turbo faster. It also gives a lopier idle.

The adjustment I suggested is towards the slow end of the spectrum in every way. Advancing the exhaust and retarding the intake is the last thing you wanna do if you're looking for performance. But you want to eliminate cam degreeing as the root of the problem. Then you can decide how much lope you can live with. It's hard to quantify how much slower my car got, but it was noticeable.

You might want to play with timing first, like Al suggested, since that's easier to adjust. But in my experience it doesn't affect idle quality.

Edit: Advance is clockwise when looking at the cam gear. If you're using a 1g CAS, make sure you readjust your base timing whenever you adjust the intake cam by a significant amount. You probably already know all this, but I thought I'd add it for the sake of completeness.

 

[Spool'n Spyder]

Well my only tuning is a Keydiver chip and gm maft set to 450's like I was told. I wanted a good safe tune that I didnt ever have to mess with. I may be able to send the chip back and get some timing taken out on the lower end.