clutch engagement

[stepheng1113]

I just recently installed the ACT 2100 clutch into my 90 Talon TSi, and also installed a new clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder.. I bled it and everything but it seems like its not holding pressure.. Its ok if I pump it 5 or 6 times, but then a couple minutes later it seems to wanna stick to the floor again and Im not sure why.. did I just not bleed it good enough(and if so does anyone have any good tips on how to bleed it) or is there anything else that would cause it to do this?

 

[scotthidley]

How did you bleed it? Check the tech section of www.taboospeedshop.com for bleeding the clutch and adjusting the pedal height (ignore the part about the slave cylinder rod).

 

[stepheng1113]

to bleed I just pumped it 4-5 times, held it to the floor then loosend the bleed screw and tightend it and let off.. and repeated this about 3-4 times.. then after that I just pumped it 10-20 times.. should I try to bleed it again a few more times??

 

[ADrewzki]

to bleed I just pumped it 4-5 times, held it to the floor then loosend the bleed screw and tightend it and let off.. and repeated this about 3-4 times.. then after that I just pumped it 10-20 times.. should I try to bleed it again a few more times??

I bled mine for a good half hour. I used up a little under a bottle of brake fluid. Just be extra careful not to let air back in via the bleed valve. I just put a new master cyl in mine and it's stiff as hell.

 

[carwizard1]

try using a vacuume bleeder it worked great for me and you dont waste fluid

 

[MindBlowin03]

Make sure your adjustment rod bolt is tightened.

 

[scotthidley]

Stick a clear hose on the bleeder, run it upward, then back down into a bottle. Once it's bled completely, there won't be any air in the upper portion to the top. I think that makes enough sense.

 

[stepheng1113]

K well I just got done bleeding it for about 30 minutes, and used up a little more than a bottle of brake fluid and when I pump up the clutch it works fine 1 or 2 times.. but after I let off once and try it again it feels very soft and wants to stick to the floor.. Anyone think the master cylinder I got could be defective? or any other reasons why it would do this? I had heard that the pedal assembly sometimes causes that but Im not sure.. any ideas?

 

[Gary 420A RS]

check the clutch release....

 

[stepheng1113]

Clutch release??.... I just replaced the clutch, is that what you mean....or is there something else I should be checking?

 

[Gary 420A RS]

Clutch release??.... I just replaced the clutch, is that what you mean....or is there something else I should be checking?

that little extra piece that slides into place everytime you push down the clutch.... its inside your tranny on the rod that goes in between the clutch into the bottom end of the block.... its hard trying to explain it..... its like not knowing the persons number unless you got a phone with the numbers on it in front of you.... man i confused my self....

 

[Mike1992]

Pull back the boot on you clutch master and slave and see if theres any greasy tar in there, if there is replace the unit.

You are bleeding it with 2 people correct? I mean you can do it with one, but I like doing it with 2.

 

[realhp=turbo]

Pull back the boot on you clutch master and slave and see if theres any greasy tar in there, if there is replace the unit.

You are bleeding it with 2 people correct? I mean you can do it with one, but I like doing it with 2.

I second that, definatly do this with two people, good communication is key. Down, hold, open, close, up, down, open, close, up, ect. ect.... Once you've done that like, Id say, twelve, thirteen times, then jump in the car and just sit there and pump for a while. You should not be having these kind of problems after that if those parts are new, new. If you do then ya you should look at the quality of the parts you got. Make sure that you dont have any leaks anywhere either.
mike

 

[stepheng1113]

Yea I was doing it with 2 people.. did it about 15 times and still no luck.. clutch master and slave are brand new from autozone.. clutch and tranny are both brand new also.. so I have no idea what could be causing it now.. I was thinkin maybe the lines had a hole or something and pressure was getting out but the master cylinder or slave cylinder are not leaking fluid.. We even tried cracking a line on the master cylinder to see if there was any air in that too.. still, no luck.. I have no idea.. I am stumped.. Its like it wants to work if i pump it up, but a couple minutes later it wants to stick again? It doesnt sound like pedal assembly but could it be?? any help would be very much appreciated!!??

 

[Mike1992]

Yea checkout the pedal assembly, you could also have a worn clutch fork. Also readover this page. http://www.roadraceengineering.com/clutchandflywheeltech.htm

 

[stepheng1113]

So if I use the clear hose.. I hook it up to the bleeder screw then run it up and back down into a bottle.. and then i just bleed it the same way I would without that?? pump, hold, unscrew, tighten, release and repeat over and over?

 

[scotthidley]

So if I use the clear hose.. I hook it up to the bleeder screw then run it up and back down into a bottle.. and then i just bleed it the same way I would without that?? pump, hold, unscrew, tighten, release and repeat over and over?

Pretty much. Have the valve cracket open just enough so that the fluid slowly goes into the hose. If you open it too much, you'll be letting air in behind the bleeder. I'm on my 3rd aftermarket master and slave cylinders. One of the masters was defective to begin with. It doesn't matter how much fluid you go through when bleeding, it's just getting the air out. You only need to elevate the hose a few inches. This creates a trap so the air in the line won't back back into the slave.

 

[Nerfherder]

I have this exact same issue with the exact same clutch, the ACT 2100. I replaced my master cylinder for the clutch with no luck. I guess my next step is the slave cylinder. I've bled the thing 5 or six times and get the same results as you. It works for a couple of minutes, then goes slushy all at once. I don't have any issues with the pedal wanting to stay on the floor, but the engage position of the clutch changes. Subscribing.

 

[IMMORTALSPYDER]

that little extra piece that slides into place everytime you push down the clutch.... its inside your tranny on the rod that goes in between the clutch into the bottom end of the block.... its hard trying to explain it..... its like not knowing the persons number unless you got a phone with the numbers on it in front of you.... man i confused my self....

I believe you're talking about the throw out bearing.

 

[Nerfherder]

Well, after reading all of the info in this article, I'm worried that I didn't know enough about the setup of the ACT2100. I hope I didn't mess up too much.

http://www.taboospeedshop.com/clutch.htm

 

[stepheng1113]

Ok so if my clutch does engage right the first few times, then it shouldnt be the clutch setup itself that is messing up right? I mean it works until I give it a few minutes to sit, then the clutch feels soft like the pressure isnt built up.. It shifts just fine the first few times I do it.. then it goes to crap.. I think im gonna pull the master back of and take it back and see if I can swap it with a new one.. Thats the only other thing I could think of it being?? Im stumped..No clue...

 

[Nerfherder]

My clutch pedal is soft to begin with. I have to pump it up a few times before I can start to drive. After pumping it, the engage position moves upward toward me then it slowly starts reverting back to the old engage position near the floor, and I have to put it in neutral and pump it a few times to set it right. It's irritating. :thumbdown

 

[rjgeier]

This is a good vfaq on how to bleed the system. http://www.plymouthlaser.com/slave2.htm

 

[Nerfherder]

Well, I got tired of bleeding it and ending up with the same problem, so I decided to mark my master cylinder actuator rod and begin shortening/lengthening it in 1/4-turn increments.

Note: My clutch issues might not have been the same as yours, or as Stepheng's. With my clutch, after my car had been sitting a while, my clutch pedal would be really soft until the last half of travel. The clutch would engage/disengage very close to the floor. So close to the floor that I sometimes had trouble shifting when I had my Doc Martin's on. If I pumped the pedal quickly about 6-10 times, the engage/disengage position would rise and the pedal would stiffen up. This would last for about 10-15 minutes of driving before I had to repeat it.

So, I started by lengthening the rod 1/4 of a turn. This brought my clutch engage/disengage position up from the floor a little. I kept going up to a full 1 turn. After getting to 1 full turn, my clutch started to slip in 3rd gear after an hour of driving. I lowered it back down to the 3/4-turn mark from the original position and drove it for a while. The clutch is engaging/disengaging near the top of the travel (where I like it) and if I pump it repeatedly, there is no change in the position of the clutch engage/disengage. I've only had it like this for 1 day, so I will post results if there are any complications.

P.S. I checked my clutch fork at the "engaged" position, and it is in the middle of the bellhousing hole, as it is supposed to be. I also checked the clutch fork at the "disengaged" position, and it is not even close to hitting the side of the bellhousing, so everything looks good there.

 

[scotthidley]

Well, I got tired of bleeding it and ending up with the same problem, so I decided to mark my master cylinder actuator rod and begin shortening/lengthening it in 1/4-turn increments.

Note: My clutch issues might not have been the same as yours, or as Stepheng's. With my clutch, after my car had been sitting a while, my clutch pedal would be really soft until the last half of travel. The clutch would engage/disengage very close to the floor. So close to the floor that I sometimes had trouble shifting when I had my Doc Martin's on. If I pumped the pedal quickly about 6-10 times, the engage/disengage position would rise and the pedal would stiffen up. This would last for about 10-15 minutes of driving before I had to repeat it.

So, I started by lengthening the rod 1/4 of a turn. This brought my clutch engage/disengage position up from the floor a little. I kept going up to a full 1 turn. After getting to 1 full turn, my clutch started to slip in 3rd gear after an hour of driving. I lowered it back down to the 3/4-turn mark from the original position and drove it for a while. The clutch is engaging/disengaging near the top of the travel (where I like it) and if I pump it repeatedly, there is no change in the position of the clutch engage/disengage. I've only had it like this for 1 day, so I will post results if there are any complications.

P.S. I checked my clutch fork at the "engaged" position, and it is in the middle of the bellhousing hole, as it is supposed to be. I also checked the clutch fork at the "disengaged" position, and it is not even close to hitting the side of the bellhousing, so everything looks good there.

First, if your losing pedal pressure, you have an air leak into the clutch somewhere. Most likely at the master cylinder.

After you fix that, your fork should be very close to the bellhousing when the pedal is down.

What you're trying to do will work for a little while, but the problem is still there, you're just masking it. If you try to lengthen your mc rod too much, you'll bottom out the mc before the pedal is on the floor. If you do that, and keep pressing on the pedal, you will bend the pedal bracket. That is the absolute worst thing to have to swap on a 1g. 2g's don't look to be set up as poorly, but it still wouldn't be fun.