New 85% Ethanol Gas

[jmdombr]

Some gas stations around Chicago have this new 85% ethanol gas?
What is this, should i run it?
Will it run better?

Anyone else seen this?

 

[jmdombr]

Its
85 Cents per gallon!!!

see article
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/052004_ns_ethanolgas.html

 

[mitsuclipsegsx]

its cheaper, but will burn a lot fatser,. i notice when they chnaged to 10% my gas millege went down

 

[talonted_one]

its cheaper, but will burn a lot fatser,. i notice when they chnaged to 10% my gas millege went down

So does that mean it combusts faster...( lower octane) or do you burn more of the gas?

 

[wret]

its cheaper, but will burn a lot fatser,. i notice when they chnaged to 10% my gas millege went down

"E85 is used in flexible fuel vehicles (FFVs) that run on any mix of gasoline and up to 85% ethanol. It is not intended for use in normal gasoline engines."

"Its not a good idea to use E85 in a gasoline-only engine. Longer term use of E85 in gasoline-only engines may cause damage because of the incompatibility of the alcohol fuel with parts in gasoline-only engines. Performance and emissions will also be compromised."

http://www.al-corn.com/faq/e85.asp

DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!

 

[out there]

i haven't done any long term testing, but i did use some about a week ago... 4gal e85 and 4gal 92octane
upside, i haven't noticed massive knock even when i turned up to 20psi on the 14b (cold night) or pushed 17psi up to 7500 in 3rd.
downside, you need to use more fuel.
i have my afc set to -33 (sounds lumpy ) with 92octane, but -22 (also a little lumpy) with half of each. with high throttle settings (and 17psi) for 92octane, i had .88-.9 up to redline. after adding e85, they dropped to .8-.82 (i haven't logged higher boost with e85 yet)

there's a local guy trying for 10s on a stock block, and he said he would give e85 a shot this week or next to see what he can do with it... he has a 50trim and 650s, so he's got plenty of room to run more fuel

 

[psychlow]

There's still the different octane ratings, but there is less energy per volume than straight gasoline, so you'll get less power out of each expansion/combustion stroke (less MPG).

 

[out there]

exactly, that's why people using pure alcohol use huge injectors, fuel lines, fuel pumps, and ignitions

 

[Defiant]

Apparently ethanol is corrosive to the zinc used in fuel systems (not so much a problem in plastic-tanked DSMs), and isn't compatible with normal gasoline-resistant rubber seals and O rings.

 

[JrCRXHF]

Some gas stations around Chicago have this new 85% ethanol gas?
What is this, should i run it?
Will it run better?

Anyone else seen this?

i run this in my honda but i have a tune for it i would not run it in your stock car with out dyno time and the right fuel mods. i ran 720cc injectors just to suport this fuel on a stock b16 with a t3/t4 turbo. but the stuff makes great power because it has oxgen in the fuel. u can run alot more advance with the fuel and the air fuel should be under 10.75:1 i just wish i could find it more often around here.

 

[JrCRXHF]

Apparently ethanol is corrosive to the zinc used in fuel systems (not so much a problem in plastic-tanked DSMs), and isn't compatible with normal gasoline-resistant rubber seals and O rings.

this is not true for ethanol but for other fuel like meth yes it is. i have been running this fuel in my honda for 3 years and i ran it in a snowmoblie for about 7 years no problems and we did do testing at our university due to the use of the fuel with our FSAE race car.

 

[The Bus Driver]

I'm not sure if you guys remember the Super Stallion Concept a few years back:

http://www.mustang-gt.com/gt/FWN/superstallion.htm

This thing used gas or E85, but E85 gave it 50 more horsepower. Alcohol would be a great solution, only minor modifications needed to run it (we can keep our high HP IC vehicles), locally grown/produced, more horse power (though only half the gas mileage), cleaner burning, and no reliance on the MIDDLE EAST...just pushing my political agenda. More info on gasahol:

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_392b.html

 

[out there]

i think i'll try a whole tank of half and half to see what kind of mileage i get with normal driving. with the little bit that i did run, (considering that i was pushing it pretty hard, purely a test ) i think i might've averaged 15mpg or so

 

[Velo7825]

So E85 is 15% gas and 85% ethanol, So If you wanted to use this for race gas instead of the $5.00 a gallon stuff you could just adjust the a/f with say a wideband.

I guess the question would be what all components in the fuel system would need to be replaced. Rubber pieces and what not, It also says that the ethanol corrodes metal. I guess if you used this just for racing and switched back to regular gas after you where done and drove a bit it wouldn't really effect the engine.

 

[JrCRXHF]

So E85 is 15% gas and 85% ethanol, So If you wanted to use this for race gas instead of the $5.00 a gallon stuff you could just adjust the a/f with say a wideband.

I guess the question would be what all components in the fuel system would need to be replaced. Rubber pieces and what not, It also says that the ethanol corrodes metal. I guess if you used this just for racing and switched back to regular gas after you where done and drove a bit it wouldn't really effect the engine.

i have been running it for 2 years in my honda and for about 10 years or so in snowmoblies with out changing anything but how much and timming none of the fuel system. the oil industry does not want this fuel getting out so they say all kinds of bad things about it.

 

[out there]

i can't say anything about whether anything will be corroded... but i can speak for how the car will make power with e85. with 92 octane fuel, i can idle just fine at -30% (680cc injectors), but i need to richen up to -22% when i use about 1/2 e85 and 1/2 92 octane. less energy per combustion is what's happening, hence the need for more fuel

 

[JrCRXHF]

i can't say anything about whether anything will be corroded... but i can speak for how the car will make power with e85. with 92 octane fuel, i can idle just fine at -30% (680cc injectors), but i need to richen up to -22% when i use about 1/2 e85 and 1/2 92 octane. less energy per combustion is what's happening, hence the need for more fuel

but by running a ratio like that you are still maken way more power then what you will with just pump gas if you can advance timming you can really take advantage of the fuel.

 

[Velo7825]

well it would be nice to use the E85 but I don't think there are any places around me to get it. Evansville, IN. It would be nice to get 50 gallon drums but then theres all the storage conserns and what not.

 

[92awddsm]

I have spent several years in the past working with fuel systems on racecars(oval, drag, offroad, boats, roadracers,etc) Typically, a small block chevy engine like the a/f ratio to be around 12.50-13.0:1 to make max power and be safe. Take that same engine and convert it to ethanol and you need to have the a/f ratio around 5.90-6.20:1 Now, you take 85% eth and 15% petroleum based fuel, your a/f would need to be somewhere around 8.2:1. The ethanol only makes more power because you are running slightly leaner. This is accomplished without knock because ethanol also burns cooler. Ethanol is very corrosive to aluminum(pistons and heads), zinc galvanized(fuel tank and lines), bearing surfaces, and rubber. I myself will just stick to petroleum based fuels and avoid the concerns. I have seen the long term effects of running eth and the cons far exceed the pros. Just for reference, I worked at www.aedperformance.com Check the site and you will see that this is a legit performance and fuel systems shop.

 

[DSMJim]

What is the octane rating of E85 compared to gasoline?

Regular unleaded gasoline has an octane rating of 87. E85 has an octane rating ranging from 100 to 105, making it a high performance fuel. Ford FFVs produce a 5% horsepower gain when using E85.

If E85 is spilled on the ground, can it contaminate ground water?

Ethanol is water soluble, non-toxic and biodegradable. The contaminates in E85 are found in the 15% gasoline. E85 contains roughly 80% less of the potential contaminants found in normal gasoline.

From their site. Thought that was pretty cool. I would like to eventually see cars run major HP from the factory with a corn based fuel system. Less polution, renewable source, potential for good HP. Sounds good to me.

 

[jrohner]

I have been racing an asphalt oval track car for 4 years and have ran e85 the whole time. It is awesome. MORE power. COOLER water temp. CHEAPER than gas.

It makes the car run cool. I almost always pull of the track at 170-190 degrees water temp (even though I get 300 degrees oil temp cause of no oil cooler yet). Pretty impressive considering the engine is never under 5000rpms. Also I run my engine for 2 years at a time without taking anything apart on it, so I know it doesn't hurt the engine in any way. I never even touch any part of the fuel system except the fuel filter (& fuel cap ) .

The octane rating is said to be about 108. Also, ethanol mixes with water so you won't get frozen up if a little water gets in the system.

I have never ran E85 in any of my DSMs yet, but I have ran it in my stock mazda protege 5 without any problems -- runs perfect. The computer is smart enough to know it needs more fuel.

Since you will use more fuel, your injectors (& pump) may be too small if you are near their limit on gas. I haven't checked myself, but from what I have seen in the EPA milage rating it will hurt milage 20-25 percent. It also wouldn't hurt to try a little extra ign timing.

 

[leakyfaucet]

i have been running this fuel in my honda for 3 years and i ran it in a snowmoblie for about 7 years

i have been running it for 2 years in my honda and for about 10 years or so in snowmoblies

:laugh:

 

[IMMORTALSPYDER]

Ethanol is shitty gas. Plain and simple. No you don't make more hp off of it, and yes you do get worse gas mileage with it. Illinois and Wisconsin are stupid for mandating it in all gas sold there.

 

[FireyIce01]

Ethanol is shitty gas. Plain and simple. No you don't make more hp off of it, and yes you do get worse gas mileage with it. Illinois and Wisconsin are stupid for mandating it in all gas sold there.

Ethanol isn't gas. I haven't read the rest of the thread but here's what I know. Ethanol is a form of Alcohol, jsut as is methanol. It has approx 108-115 octane rating if you burn it pure, so you can increase compression a LOT more like 14-16:1 without detonation, however it burns slower than gasoline, so you have to advance your timing approx 14 degrees more than normal to get it to burn properly (again I'm speaking of just burning alchy) It burns cleaner than gas, but also drys up your internals... which means speecial oils need to be used with alcohol. It also tends to eat rubber parts in your fuel system, so you need to use steel/teflon lines... I don't know about plastics, but I would think that in time it would start to deteriorate those as well... These are the reasons it's not reccomended in gasoline motors... with the proper prep you can burn it, but you need to revamp your fuel system a lot. Alcohol has a lot more power potential, but you have to burn a lot more alcohol... think 6-8:1 A/F ratio as opposed to 14.5:1 you use with gas... so it may be cheaper, but you have to use nearly twice as much... Top fuelers run Methanol and Nitro (hence the name, nitromethane) Ethanol is what comes out when you change the tempurature a couple degrees in the still when distilling... and I think it's a good idea that they're starting to use it, because contrary to popular belief it would be a better fuel source... as it's renewable. Also will clean your fuel system out, as alcohol has many cleaning properties.

Overall your 2 biggest worries are it's corrosive properties and keeping your engine lubricated.

i have been running it for 2 years in my honda and for about 10 years or so in snowmoblies with out changing anything but how much and timming none of the fuel system. the oil industry does not want this fuel getting out so they say all kinds of bad things about it.

Now that I've read the thread.... you're wrong about 1 thing, there ARE negative effects to it... maybe your vehicles were already equipped with proper fuel systems that could handle this, but the stuff truly does corrode things and eat rubber lines and O rings.

 

[Gigaah]

I don't think in WI it has to be in the premium grade. I only see the 10% eth stickers on the mid and low grade gas if I recall properly.